A Brief History of the Black Shroud

[Elladie]

Another question on the Black Shroud XD

In the quest dialogue concerning Spirithold in south Greentear, it's referred to by both Galfrid and Papalymo as a dungeon. Do they mean a literal dungeon (as in a prison) or are they using the word in the same way we do, namely a place where there are monsters & nasties?

Edit: actually, ignore me, I seem to remember seeing the remains of prison cells in that place. I'll go check it out when I'm in game later. I do wonder, though, about the place's history and why a prison would be named Spirithold ...

[Anonymoose]

Do they mean a literal dungeon (as in a prison)

Yep. It replaced Toto-Rak after it was closed roughly thirty years back - then it got destroyed in the Calamity and the city gave it back to the wood. One of the early quests involves the CNJ guild getting interrupted while trying to do perform the rite of returning.

actually, ignore me

Ignore the inquisitive? Me!? It's not in my blood.

[Enkidoh]

Yep. It replaced Toto-Rak after it was closed roughly thirty years back - then it got destroyed in the Calamity and the city gave it back to the wood. One of the early quests involves the CNJ guild getting interrupted while trying to do perform the rite of returning.

Was Spirithold indeed Toto-Rak's replacement as Gridania's prison though? The DF description for Toto-Rak stated that it was abandoned because of the "completion of a new gaol closer to the city", yet Spirithold seems to be very much Gelmorran in design and origins, just like Toto-Rak, hardly a 'new facility', although I guess that could be handwaved away as simply an "old structure being given a new purpose" (Spirithold does indeed seem to be a gaol like Toto-Rak). Although Gridania does indeed reuse old Gelmorran structures (like the Mun-Tuy Cellars and Tam Tara Deepcroft), the way the DF description is written it makes it seem Toto-Rak's replacement was a brand new building and not simply another old ruin from Gelmorra done up.

But I guess I'm being just being pedantic here.

Whats the origin of the elementals? what were they doing during the time of the allags? ( know the allagans are , they could have destryed the hole forest and use it as fuel lol )
Also whats their relation with the 12? if such relation exist of course.

To be really honest? No one knows! All that has been stated about the elementals is that they're beings of pure aether who seemed to have always been there - in 1.0 it was stated elementals actually exist everywhere in the world, even outside the Black Shroud in all manner of things, even rocks and water, so it's entirely possible that they may have existed there since the very dawn of time/Hydaelyn's creation. For some reason though they were more numerous and potent in the Black Shroud than anywhere else in Hydaelyn, giving the forest a kind of 'genius loci' effect where in a very real sense the forest is very much sentient itself after a fashion.

Additionally, nothing is known as to the state of the Black Shroud (and the elementals too for that matter) when the Allag Empire was at it's world-conquering height - given the suspicious lack of Allagan structures in the Shroud and the sheer power of the elementals, I would not be surprised if the Shroud was the one place the Allagans were not able to conquer - they may have tried, but the elementals probably ran rings around them, and, given the lack of any other spoken races living there, the Allag probably regarded the place as simply being of little political value - better to turn their attentions on conquering functioning societies than an empty forest populated only by powerful aetheric fairies that can make the very trees aggressive and dangerous.

As for where they fit in with the Twelve, Gridania worships the goddess Nophica the Matron, which, during a story quest in 1.0, a moogle stated that the most powerful elemental of all, the elemental who inhabits Everschade the Guardian Tree, decreed that "those beckoned by the wood" (ala, Yda, Papalymo and the player), are "Messengers of Nophica" - this revelation surprised even E-Sumi Yan, who was slightly and visibly shaken by this. Although 1.0 has retconned much, it would be very interesting to see exactly what was meant by this (that plotline ultimately never was resolved or went anywhere so it's sadly possible that it's been abandoned - a shame as I was very intrigued about what the 'pudgy moogle' meant by that.).

Either way, it seems there is at least some connection between the Twelve (at least, Nophica anyway) and the elementals, but exactly how deep that connection is, is unknown at this stage.