Bard - they broke my job

[BrokenFox]

wanders minute sux delete it

i agree with this guy

[Deviant1]

Fights are designed once you learn the combat, not before.

While i understand we have to use it, doesnt mean its great for progression. The way the ability is coded makes it very annoying as it locks you in.

Name one other stance that locks you in other then WM/GB?

PS I dont like caster bars on bard makes sense on mages not physical dps, my opinion and appropriate for the thread.

Your posts only bring a bad conception of the bard in 3.0 and repeatly the job is entire broken. The job is not perfect, bards need be fixed in some kind of messure that developers know or are studying.

Yea, and my vote is lose the caster bars and up weapon damage... 8 points behind is ridicules, and by this rate we will be in double digits by the end of the 1 year hw mark...

In my opinion Caster bars + locked in cast stance + lowered dmg weapons = i think it is entirely broken.

[rappa]

While i understand we have to use it, doesnt mean its great for progression. The way the ability is coded makes it very annoying as it locks you in.

Name one other stance that locks you in other then WM/GB?

Warrior can't use Fell cleave without Deliverance, same as inner beast without defiance.
Dk can't use some of theirs skills without Darkside with is chained to their mp. A good DRK knows to handle their mp and theirs abilities. A bad one, let his mana drops to zero.
Astrologian is tied to their stance before start the combat, sometimes you would prefer shield than regen or viceversa.
Monks and their opo-opo, coeurl and raptor stances.

PS I dont like caster bars on bard makes sense on mages not physical dps, my opinion and appropriate for the thread.
Yea, and my vote is lose the caster bars and up weapon damage... 8 points behind is ridicules, and by this rate we will be in double digits by the end of the 1 year hw mark...

Physical dps "ranged", don't forget it. So your point is, i don't like the cast bars on bard, change it!. Ok it's your opinion and who control the game choose to keep it. What do you do? learn how to handle? cry on forum? maybe learn the new mechanics or move on to other FOTM job?

About the WD is one point i am agree, we lose our mobility (ha, we still can move freely or with a little dps lost, same as black mage, smn or healers trying to heal, melees trying to avoid aoe without attack the boss) we earn more damage but still less than others jobs.
The point is SE doesn't wanna bard or MCH to be top or at least in some fights. Nobody will change that if developers don't do it. We have to deal with it after they choose to change that.

In my opinion Caster bars + locked in cast stance + lowered dmg weapons = i think it is entirely broken.

I can't follow you and i am trying to imagine where is the broken status on bards and "savage statics", in endgame encounters are disagree with your opinion.
A month ago, Astrologian was fixed because "savage statics" don't use this job to raid or at least in a same % than whm/sch. Reason:
- Lack of heals
- MP management
- Cards mechanics don't balance their less potency heals with support abilities.

They fixed and changed potencies, support abilities and how is fine. In comparation with bards, we are fine. Not a perfect job but close with a few improvements as WD, SS procs and removing songs without lose a GCD.

[Maero]

Wow so you honestly think Minuet is a loss of dps? How clueless you be, and i would like to think Rinchan is one of those top Bards that actually knows there stuff
If you are so convinced why not test it for yourself and provide the data?
QOL fixes and Bard will be much better and am sure those that actually left may come back to it

[BrokenFox]

Wanderer's Minuet makes BRD mathematically more powerful, that's a fact so I don't know why people are arguing that. The problem is it strips the Job of it's uniqueness and makes it lame and unfun to play. Wanderer's and Gauss Barrel are just lazy lazy abilities. Homogenization sucks.

[Judge_Xero]

Wanderer's Minuet makes BRD mathematically more powerful, that's a fact so I don't know why people are arguing that. The problem is it strips the Job of it's uniqueness and makes it lame and unfun to play. Wanderer's and Gauss Barrel are just lazy lazy abilities. Homogenization sucks.

To a degree. I mean, BRD still has it's own niche skills and for the most part plays completely different. (Blood Letter, RoD, No Turret, Barrage VS Wildfire, No Ammo System, high crit)

Could SE have done something completely different? Sure probably. But GB and WM are IMO just as similar as the combo system for Melee. You wouldn't say that NIN and DRG play the same because they use Combo's would you?

Discussion wise we have

- BRD Damage is higher than 2.0
- BRD is balanced well with MCN
- BRD movement is a bit less than 2.0 if you don't count running around like a chicken for no reason, which in that case it's a lot lower
- BRD skill synergy is much lower than 2.0 ***
- BRD fun factor is lower than 2.0 ***

*** -> Fix these things.

[RiceisNice]

To a degree. I mean, BRD still has it's own niche skills and for the most part plays completely different. (Blood Letter, RoD, No Turret, Barrage VS Wildfire, No Ammo System, high crit)

The thing is, just how much of a effect does the ammo mechanic actually have on machinist? When all is said and done, it's an oGCD skill that boosts the potency of your shots and really doesn't have any other secondary effect except for two shots, it's pretty bland to call it a unique mechanic tbh. Wildfire and barage has it's own perks ,but they're cooldowns that becomes far and few inbetween, and the high crit really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme how different the two play.

Then you have the BL/RoD resets, but that's beaten to death that it doesn't even synergize well with bard. Even in your melee comparison with combos, they have things that work differently even in their comboing (ninja has multiple combo extensions, monk has branching combos via stances, and DRGs get dynamic positional on their 4th hits, on top of juggling their BoTD timers so they can keep it up while not bleeding excess). Their combos work different when directly compared to each other, on top of the layers of differentation from their job skills (which I feel that BRD just don't do a good job of differentiating, especially the turret since you have very little interaction with it beyond placement.

It's mostly subjective, but the two classes play incredibly similar, moreso than you can say for the two casters or between the three melees, and it really isn't expanding out toward the horizon (or at least not doing it well enough) with their own niches as you mentioned. They have SMN and BLM playing with two completely dynamics while being in the same role, and balancing from a number stand point is much easier to tune around with than mechanical issues are (assuming the later is properly executed with play testing...), they could've work more between MCH and BRD as well instead of having them both be motile dps that can add cast times for extra damage (which goes back to the niche they want these two to fill, are they physical dps that can be motile or support dps?)

[Inferiae]

actually the fair example would be to have the same top bards do alex without it.

I'm not by any means a top Bard, but went to do A1 normal without WM, just out of curiosity. The TP efficiency is terrible. I had to turn it on by the first jump because I was starving for TP.
And number-wise, my DPS was around 200 lower than usual for the same stage of the fight.

[Velthice]

I didn't know fun was an objective thing we could quantify. What about bards that find WM more fun than 2.x bards? Am I having fun wrong?

[SlyRoyale]

I didn't know fun was an objective thing we could quantify. What about bards that find WM more fun than 2.x bards? Am I having fun wrong?

I am having fun with WM as I like seeing big numbers caused by my bow and the animation for firing Empyreal Arrows is beautiful. You mean to say that people do not find this objectively fun? What is the world coming to?!

Joking aside, many people are making BRD sound worse than it actually is. While there are legitimate QoL issues with it, the job is not broken by any means. It can still perform well in any content. All SE has to do is improve the synergy of the entire toolkit and we'd be set. Shorten animation locks on certain actions (especially Heavy and Straight Shot), and perhaps change WM in a way that respects the River of Blood trait or even emphasizes it. Just to throw out a couple of ideas.