Bard - they broke my job

[RinchanNau]

Wanders Minuet is a reduction in damage for anything outside of training dummies.

Do all of Alexander savage without Minuet enabled, and let me know how you do compared to top bards on fflogs.

[Haxetc]

Do all of Alexander savage without Minuet enabled, and let me know how you do compared to top bards on fflogs.

Rinchan-chan pls

[Dante_V]

Wanders Minuet is a reduction in damage for anything outside of training dummies.

By the math, it would be at best marginal: +30% damage with -25% damage from auto-attacks leaves just 5% boost. While Barrage-emp arrow can put up a good spike, the complexity and way that WM works is too clunky.

As for Bard DPS, oh hells ya thats broken. Even in the same gear and job skill equivalent, MNK,NIN, drg, blm, smn will always do more then a bard/MCH. without any songs to 'lower' dps, at full rotations they will still be 20% lower. in 2.0 brds could be equal if not pass the level of those classes, so when they used ballad/paeon it wasnt as punitive.

Unfortunately i do not see this getting any better unless they fire yoshi, which i wish they would do already...

This has already been proven false so many time it's hardly worth addressing, it's a straight damage increase proportionally, and Bards in 2.0 did not have the max potential dps output of ninjas, monks, or dragoons. Your own post admits that its a 5% increase of damage vs not using it at all and parses show this pretty plainly. The difference in offset is that you lose access to other abilities making the increase even higher than cited. On top of that Bard is still pound for pound the easiest job in the game overall. If you want something with higher returns than play something with more difficulty.

[rappa]

Wanders Minuet is a reduction in damage for anything outside of training dummies.

By the math, it would be at best marginal: +30% damage with -25% damage from auto-attacks leaves just 5% boost. While Barrage-emp arrow can put up a good spike, the complexity and way that WM works is too clunky.

[Haxetc]

Bard is still pound for pound the easiest job in the game overall. If you want something with higher returns than play something with more difficulty.

Where's the chart with job difficulty? :O I'm interested in your case on this

[Darian]

To be fair. SE did just kind of move skills around to make bards "think" that WM is a really good damage boost By lowering non-WM dmg. AAs lost,barrage changes, lots of WM only skills,etc.

Not saying I wouldn't use WM. Just that SE has forced bards into it by lowering everything else. AAs,lost movement,and cast times for a job not designed with them in mind was a serious blow to the job. This Job is really sad to play atm since it didn't grow at all and is in need of some serious love for multiple reasons NOT just the damage.

[Judge_Xero]

Here's my thinking.

Repelling Shot - Reduced to 20s Recast. (Same 80 Potency)
When used with WM grants - "Your next WS will be Instant Cast"

Job fixed?

Edited: Obviously on top of fixing the Straighter Shot procs showing up way late.

(was also thinking that it would grant "Your next two WS will be Instant Cast" or 1 Instant WS + a Straighter Shot proc, but thought that might be too OP)

[Cetonis]

Re: DRG, the easiest fix if you think it's an issue, is probably to just give BRD and MCH a non-stacking piercing debuff a la Dancing Edge (maybe just lazily slap it on EA and GB) and be done with it. Although, it's possible that SE actively wants DRG to be semi-required, based on player counts for each job etc.

[Deviant1]

Do all of Alexander savage without Minuet enabled, and let me know how you do compared

actually the fair example would be to have the same top bards do alex without it. If you want to be scientific then compare apples to apples. Also if you want to be fair, put them into neutral content, where they do not know the fight. Like BLM, if you know the fight and every safe spot then you dont have to worry about moving... I would love to see the actual data from a top tier bard running new content with WM full time vs non-WM.

Bards in 2.0 did not have the max potential dps output of ninjas, monks, or dragoons.

Then why did i out damage almost everyone of them in 2.x? sure the few top tier would always win, to be expected, but the majority of players are not top tier. Also this isnt about max potential, but realized numbers on target.

Your own post admits that its a 5% increase of damage vs not using it at all and parses show this pretty plainly. The difference in offset is that you lose access to other abilities making the increase even higher than cited.

and all that extra dps goes right out the window if your dots drop just once, or you get killed because the healer didnt heal during prey in as1... Bottom line is for all the extra 'good' it is very unforgiving.

The irony is none of these comments say anything about how clunky the ability is, or how currently Brd/Mch was engineered to specifically ensure they will always be the lowest dps. Best bow in the game only has a 68dmg versus melee weapons at 76. A difference of 8 points, when you compare that to the i95 first coil, the difference was only 5 points. 3 points is about 150dps which is noticeable.

I am not saying 'dont use WM' but i will say that it is clunky and does not work well as an ability in my opinion, and i would like the 3 missing points on weapons back so that brds/mch are not so engineered to be lower dps.

[rappa]

actually the fair example would be to have the same top bards do alex without it. If you want to be scientific then compare apples to apples. Also if you want to be fair, put them into neutral content, where they do not know the fight. Like BLM, if you know the fight and every safe spot then you dont have to worry about moving... I would love to see the actual data from a top tier bard running new content with WM full time vs non-WM.

Can you stop? please. It's embarrasing to read you.

In your context, will be the same as:
A BLM uses enochian and discover there are a lot of aoe to avoid
A Smn uses Bahamut Trance and the boss disappear
A monk who loses their stacks.
A dragoon uses a jump and aoe is placed in their spot.
A ninja uses trict attack and the boss one second after becomes invulnerable.
A tank without the knowledge about cd rotations and "Tank killers abilities"
Healers spend a lot of mp in progression.

Fights are designed once you learn the combat, not before.

actually the fair example would be to have the same top bards do alex without it.

Give me a name from one bard who is not using WM the 95% of the combat or more, and evidences he/they don't use it.

It's not necessary to answer me, You don't meet any good bard who don't use WM. Your posts only bring a bad conception of the bard in 3.0 and repeatly the job is entire broken. The job is not perfect, bards need be fixed in some kind of messure that developers know or are studying.

One advice, try to write a post where put your questions, problems and situations. Really good bards will help you to be one, or at least, one decent. Putting shit in the job and don't learn about him. Oh man, this is the big shit.