RDM as a DPS

[Yaichiro]

This is how you make a job request thread.

Stop making long elaborated threads going skill after skill. Keep it simple like this guy.

Maybe you should wait until people finish editing their posts.

@ OP I am not sure about crippling RDM with 10% less damage. Utilities in your post seem as good as goad/Invigore/Mantra.

Also INT doesn't fit well for melee non-magic attacks such as Quick Thrust. Maybe INT and DEX/STR for RDM would make more sense

[Madrone]

Maybe you should wait until people finish editing their posts.

@ OP I am not sure about crippling RDM with 10% less damage. Utilities in your post seem as good as goad/Invigore/Mantra.

Also INT doesn't fit well for melee non-magic attacks such as Quick Thrust. Maybe INT and DEX/STR for RDM would make more sense

It's not a flat -10% damage really... its that weapon damage stat is lower like BRD/MCN weapons. I make RDM Fire even with BLM AF III Fire mechanically, but build in some innate weakness with the lower weapon D because it has 2 DoTs/strong autoattacks/stronger casting in Ice phase, combo bonuses/Doublecast instead of procs, and no tier IV or Enochian; and the hope is to hit weaker than BLM with the same spells, sustain a dps a bit lower overall, and enjoy less reliance on turreting. Same deal with Cure compared to a Healer's Cure, but that's innately weaker from lower Weapon D and healing potency penalty because RDM is a dps job. Its much stronger than other caster's Physick because I can't imagine RDM with an ineffective basic Cure.

While this weakens both melee and magic, I think its needed because RDM has SO MANY utility skills: raise, a strongish Cure, a weak Cure III equivalent on a cooldown, Goad equivalent, single target Shroud of Saints equivalent, two +5% damage vulnerability debuffs that are AoE, and a strong single target damage mitigation boost. Even if many of these things are on 30s-120s cooldowns, that's still a lot of utility to toss around that simply out-classes other dps' utility (except the aoe resource recovery of brd/mcn).

I don't know how it will play out with the numbers, but NIN/SMN level dps or a little lower would be good. I'm already afraid that strong DoT spells, auto-attacks, and its bursty doublecasting will be too good, and that removing spellblade's damage boost to same element spells and/or increasing Doublecast's cooldown might be needed to balance its dps. Possibly remove combat raise trait too. Then again, I may be jumping the gun because I'm comparing a level 70 apple to level 60 oranges. Who knows what all the other DPS will get from 61-70?

I will offer you some examples that didn't make the cut because keeping things balanced is the most important thing:

Sanguine Blade used to be Regen in this build, but I realized that the game content isn't tuned for an extra stacked regen to be coming from a DPS. Light party stuff would become much easier for a healer with a RDM Regen'ing and Phalanx'ing the tank. And even 8/24 man stuff could get pretty broke with a few RDM's adding their Regens in the mix. It would have to be unstackable. But who wants a spell that gets a no effect message a lot of the time because there are already regen effects from the Healer(s)?

Runic Blade used to be a mini-stance that acted like a temporary 4th SpellBlade element in this build. This sacrificed SpellBlade's bonuses and added Dispel effect to Discharge and AoE Blindess to Circle Blade. It also made Discharge, Circle Blade, and all melee damage immune to damage mitigation abilities (not damage shields though). Even though this type of damage "piercing through resistances" has been in Final Fantasy games before, I realized it'd be an unfair advantage over every other DPS job in some fights where bosses have strong damage resistance phases. It also seemed like too much extra complexity for very niche-use stuff. Runic Blade was tuned down to its basic absorb magic damage as mp cooldown.



DEX doesn't quite make sense for NIN's either since it was only used as a physical ranged main stat prior to NIN being added. But yeah, I feel ya that Quick Thrust and Pressure are both pretty obviously pure melee attacks, without SpellBlade. With RDM, I think multiple main stats would be bad no matter what you did with traits because of the way gear is stat'ed, and because of the materia system. I'm already a little frustrated by having many skills that use skill speed, and many that use spell speed, and I can find no easy way to combine them without breaking materia melding. This is why I circumvented Healing potency/MND issues by binding it to a percentage of INT with a trait, and making MND have no effect on anything (easy since it only effected Cure). I could try do the same with the speed substats but they each have an effect on many skills. If I used a trait so one = the other, or one adds its value to the other... then someone would try melding both speeds on a piece of gear and either waste their materia with no warning that it would give 0 effect, or worse, find out that they can double-dip one or both stats.

The game needs to stay as brain-dead simple as we can reasonably make it, so there has to be just one main stat. The idea here with all INT damage is that SpellBlade is always being used once you learn it, the same way SCH's and SMN's are always under the effect of Aetherflow. And since SpellBlade imbues elemental energy in your sword... its an easy leap that INT can be the main stat for melee damage skills. Since this ability is learned at level 15 and future jobs would be starting at level 30+, we don't even have to fret over the awkward pre-Spellblade period from levels 1-14. If the job was called Mystic Knight instead of Red Mage, would you still think its sword skills should use STR instead of INT?

Yes, we could make SpellBlade actually change those skills and auto-attacks from STR based to INT based... but is there any value to having that extra complexity? Do we need another "My skill just did double-digit damage? Oops, forgot to turn on my stance." thing? Or is it just simpler, to say main stat is INT because of theme/signature skills, even for the few cases where that doesn't make sense. My final comment on the subject is, NIN magic is still powered by DEX, and PLD Flash is powered by STR.


@Dererk
haha, 1k char limit boss one-shotted with post edit. Thanks for the sentiment though. I actually did leave out about 5-10 pages worth of discussion of design problems/inspirations, detailed individual skill explanations, damage bonus compounding and cast speed math, and rotation theory. I figured if people really want to spend the time to read my Book of RDM, they can wait for me to publish it.

You win: BLU can share RDM's left side gear and also has INT main stat.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

I've got a question. It says that Spellblade has infinite duration AND recasting reapplies stacks.

So then, it's a "stance" that can't be turned off? Because that just seems odd.

[Madrone]

Break the xi mold(this. Ain't. Xi) and make it a tank. If it's interesting enough we might see a freaky thing occur and actually experience a balance of roles lol

Popular job, popular role, i.e. dps. Make your own RDM tank build. I've read several.

It breaks tank paradigm by not wearing the same heavy armor sets or using STR. Being an actual caster (not all spells instant) while taking hits in the face is a rough way to try to play. As you said, not XI, so no Utsusemi. Defensive buffs and self-healing, it could have a-plenty. There are still some "______ Knight" jobs out there that could come in as tanks.

I've got a question. It says that Spellblade has infinite duration AND recasting reapplies stacks.

So then, it's a "stance" that can't be turned off? Because that just seems odd.

Yes, its like Aetherflow. You use it and it stays on unless you instance zone. You can use up the stacks, which makes it so you can't use SpellBlade-powered abilities, but you don't lose the SpellBlade damage bonus or element trait effects. Its also a little like NIN Poisons, in that it gives you a permanent damage bonus, and shifting element may change added effects on a skill, the way switching the Poisons does. It has a very tiny Dash of Grit- no constant mp drain (that would be messy to combine with Astral Fire), but it does make the skills that change Spellblade's element (and AF/UI too) cost a little mp.

Probably should note that it either resets cooldown or stays on through death. Its mandatory to have on all the time or your damage will nosedive.

What about blaze/ice/etc spikes, *reduces targets damage taken by 10% and reflects elemental damage half of that" or something lol

That would be much more useful if it was a tank and/or had hate abilities, unless you mean those to be cast-able on someone else? I gave it a couple of defenses, and Phalanx is better to use on the tank most of the time.

Sounds an awful lot like the DRG rotation with a smattering of the SCH's aetherflow, BLM astral/umbral mechanics, and PLD block and self-healing.

It does meet the requirements of a tank, healer, and mage with this, but it's pulling too much from all the RDM variations in the FF history. Pick a single concept (like dps) and figure that out first. You can leave abilities blank and fill them in later with all the utilities you want. I just see a bunch of tank, mage, and melee abilities mashed together that end up feeling the same as those existing classes.

Also, you should never have any junk abilities. Every class has marginally less useful abilities, but there are technical uses for them that just don't matter because of the current meta or specific dungeon fights. They're never designed specifically not to be used.

Thank you for your feedback. Its supposed to be a bit of everything- blm/whm spells and a sword/shield user. I gave it some identity with classic signature skills and "grease the gears of the party engine" support skills. CNJ cross class basics and mediocre efficiency for Cure does not a healer make, and that was the cut made to make it fit the dps role.

One/two defensive moves are pretty standard even for a DPS. Phalanx is really meant to be used on others unless you're solo or in trouble- most of the support abilities are. I make you make the choice between using them selfishly or not. It cannot steal hate except maybe with a Chainspell nuke spree (but that's what Quartata enmity shedding is for). It is not particularly tough- same phys def & hp as BRD/MNK/NIN/MCN, just better mdef & a shield. Buckler type shields would have a low block rate, but I can change it to a parrying dagger if its too much of a defensive advantage. Thin sword and no off-hand feels wrong to me. I gave it one melee positional skill, and its odd/risky- front. RDM is already full of tactical decisions about utility & spellblade resource use, and makes a tight rotation, so a lot of positionals didn't seem like a good fit.

The goal was to stay a little true to its jack of all trades heritage, just gut the healing capacity and align it to DPS w/ utility. I wanted to borrow/mirror THM style magic but keep it low tier and bend and twist it to fit the sword/spell combos. Since it uses two resource pools without much worry of running out, I figured a 3rd resource to manage was needed. Aetherflow's template seemed like a better fit than Wrath or Ammo. Stretch out the timer a little, and give it RNG procs to get some extra stacks between reuses so that's its not a static use one of A, one of B, and one of C every minute, and I force it to babysit a DoT and rotate its combo as part of the deal.

Yeah "junk" just means abilities that aren't all that useful. Riposte is that type. En Garde's not that great. Thunder totally replaced by Thunder II (for RDM, not BLM). Most jobs have at least a few.