To all the flames on primal datacenter...

[Ashkendor]

That chat box is pretty close to exactly what I read most of the time in the Flames box, only you just have to swap the names. "Fall back" / "Ignore Adders" / "Get out" followed by "Adders chasing" / "Adders inc" / "ADDERS!!!"

It seems the Adders and Flames just can't seem to let each other go. Most of the time, when we engage Mael the fight ends when the nodes die. There's this awkward moment where we kind of stand there, looking at each other like we're unsure, but we part ways and that's it. When we get into it with Adders, though, one of us always ends up chasing the other and the fights drag on past the point where it should have ended a long time ago.

Yepppppp even on my data center I've seen a ton of this in the past week or two. Adders chasing us even when we're in last. Adders spawn camping us while Maelstrom sits back passing around the popcorn with 4 nodes and a 400 point lead. It gets to the point where we just make sure Adder doesn't win the game even once they actually start trying. We just go to every last Adder vs. Mael fight and focus yellows until they're obliterated, then camp their spawn if we're feeling especially douchey.

I've been in a few matches where a friend of mine who is in Adders was in the same match, and she said that basically it's the same on their end - people screaming on /a to leave Flames alone but the majority of the alliance just tuning it out.

Flames vs Mael, yeah we all tend to just blink at each other and go "well crap" when the nodes despawn, and go our separate ways.

[Februs]

It gets to the point where we just make sure Adder doesn't win the game even once they actually start trying. We just go to every last Adder vs. Mael fight and focus yellows until they're obliterated, then camp their spawn if we're feeling especially douchey.

Flames vs Mael, yeah we all tend to just blink at each other and go "well crap" when the nodes despawn, and go our separate ways.

I've never seen it get quit that bad. I don't think I've ever been part of a group that has actively spawn camped. However, I have been part of a group that has intentionally focused Adders because they harassed us to the point where we couldn't take it any more. Especially if it gets to the point where Mael is so far ahead we can't do anything about it.

Just played a round where RNG pretty much forced Adders and us together right off the bat (Adders and Mael both had 2 nodes each and Flames had nothing. Adders were closer Mael was on high ground). We fought over the Node. Adders kept it, but when we went to leave they got super aggressive and started chasing us. We had zero nodes from the very start of the match, and yet they wouldn't let us leave instead of attacking mael. Second set of Nodes and still not a single one on the Flames end of the map. Mael get two. Adders get one. Yet, adders were still chasing us. After two node sets of this, Mael had an over 500pt lead. Adders lost just as much fighting us as we gained, so we were about even, but there was no way we were gonna catch up to Mael. If Adders had, even once, switched to attacking mael than we might have been able to turn that around, but they didn't.

[Kinseykinz]

I've never seen it get quit that bad. I don't think I've ever been part of a group that has actively spawn camped. However, I have been part of a group that has intentionally focused Adders because they harassed us to the point where we couldn't take it any more. Especially if it gets to the point where Mael is so far ahead we can't do anything about it.

Just played a round where RNG pretty much forced Adders and us together right off the bat (Adders and Mael both had 2 nodes each and Flames had nothing. Adders were closer Mael was on high ground). We fought over the Node. Adders kept it, but when we went to leave they got super aggressive and started chasing us. We had zero nodes from the very start of the match, and yet they wouldn't let us leave instead of attacking mael. Second set of Nodes and still not a single one on the Flames end of the map. Mael get two. Adders get one. Yet, adders were still chasing us. After two node sets of this, Mael had an over 500pt lead. Adders lost just as much fighting us as we gained, so we were about even, but there was no way we were gonna catch up to Mael. If Adders had, even once, switched to attacking mael than we might have been able to turn that around, but they didn't.

At the end of the day, you're blaming the adders for your loss. Your loss was your team's fault.
1. You couldn't win ONE node from a team that was holding TWO in the beginning.
2. At the next Spawn, you still didn't get a node, still due to range. So when this happened, Adders in pursuit notwithstanding, what was your teams plan? Go take a node from Mael?
3. If you were being followed, you should have been able to get the majority of your team away, even if being pursued. Could have ran them straight into the Mael and forced a 3-way battle. Turning around only allows your team to be easier picked off. So it sounds like your teams communication/strategy and/or experience was lacking. You also could have regrouped at spawn and pushed a node that way. Still, while there might have been some casualties, it is impossible to slaughter 24 people running away, unless they turn around and start fighting in the open/aren't actually the whole alliance etc. Furthermore, I seriously doubt the entire Adder team chased you.
4. What it likely looked like to the adders (keep in mind, we can't cross-communicate in here) is this:
- First round, you could have focused Mael or Adders, your team picked Adders. I get your reasons, but still end of the day, you picked on Adders and left mael uncontested.
-Second round, mael spawns might have been out of reach/far away for Adders to easily contest and since you all were slow to leave initial spawns, you were too close to the new spawn they held and a threat, meaning they felt they had to chase you off. So you got chased.
-It appeared to Adders it was the typical Flames> gunning for Adders causing mael to be up crap. (I think most of this on both sides is just poppy-cock).

But when you couldn't do the initial push, and then didn't get the hell out of there, THAT's what set in motion the rest of the battle+spawns that sound like they naturally worked in Mael favor. Not some wierd 'MUST KILL THE FLAMES! vandetta...actually, if you saw adder chat, we were likely getting pissy that we felt that we couldn't focus the winning Mael once again due to the Flames.

PS: Adders loose plenty of matches too. Flames win plenty of matches, and I've seen the flames tunnel vision on the Mael as much as they tunnel vision on the Adders. Typically whoever attacks you first in any match you will hut the rest of time. Adders typically are actively telling people to stop chasing the losing team/focus on defense and/or the winning team. So, sounds like you were squishy, took too long to get out of their nodes, and were very unsuccessful at your initial push...and far less like the Adders systematically decided to punish you.

[Kurogaea]

snip

Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

[LordHadi]

I can't agree more with the OP. Adders do play well and work as a team but Flames and Maels always team up against us. My wins are 2 out of 15 matches per week.

[Dimitrii]

I can't agree more with the OP. Adders do play well and work as a team but Flames and Maels always team up against us. My wins are 2 out of 15 matches per week.

No one is teaming up against you. Stop looking for excuses that aren't there for your losses. Its a three way fight, eventually someone is gonna get sandwiched because of node placements. Besides maelstrom starting to consider flames the bigger threat to victory than adders, at least during the evening hours, so why would we waste our time pointlessly double teaming the last place team?

[Kinseykinz]

Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

Seriously... you might want to check people's character info first or even look up the PvP rankings before you look dumb. And I don't have an awesome win rate, but I play plenty.

Still, maybe the Flames loose because as a team they make poor decisions. Blaming others won't make you better. It's a 3-way fight. Tunnel-visioning any one team is going to net you losses...simple as that. Not working together will net you losses, and not knowing how to counteract a push will net a loss. But there is no grand conspiracy against the Flames on Primal Data Centers. Adders share no love for the Maelstrom. Nor do they love the Flames. They just want to win. But some matches will either due to node spawns, or due to team stupidity seemingly pit 2 teams against each other for the majority of the match.

PS: While I only did 1 match today, Flames beat Adders by 20 points in it. Mael barely had 400 points by end. Mael got 3 nodes in a row (in caves) in beginning and got sandwiched by Flames/Adders. Flames pushed the Mael hard that first spawn and got 2 nodes from Mael, Adders stole one as well, guess who came around behind us (we were north spawn and were holding the node right near that spawn/top of caves)....oh that'd be the Flames. Did we decide to attack you the rest of the fight? No, other then when it was the logical choice. Did we curse you in chat? No. Did we think it was some grand conspiracy? NO.

All it was was Mael had a weak team. They got sandwiched, nodes spawned in South for much of the match (near Flames), and Flames worked together/stayed together when attacked to keep their nodes in tact. IE, they played will and had a bit of luck. That is how you win.

My friend happened to be in the Mael that same match, and came out bitching about getting sandwiched.

WE ALL GET SANDWICHED sometimes.
We all get needlessly camped sometimes.
We all get tunnel vision teams sometimes.

But your team losing is not another teams 'fault' or some grand master plan. It's simply, you didn't play as well/react as well to the changes as the other 2 teams did. Period.


PPS: If you still don't believe there is no grand conspiracy against the flames, good news. You can switch teams for 2 weeks and 'spy' on the alliance chat. You'll be sorely disappointed to learn that no one is systematically trying to keep you down...you all do that quite nicely to yourselves.

[Februs]

Snip.

For your first point, I never said it wasn’t our fault. A loss is a loss. We couldn’t turn it around. I simply pointed out that Adders had an unusually strong desire to chase us the ENTIRE match, despite the fact that we didn’t even have a node for them to attack.

For your second and third points, you’ve got something quite wrong. I also never said that Adders got second, or won the fights they got themselves into. We failed to take the node, yes, but we took more points in kills than Adders did. Adders did not punish us. They destroyed themselves in a horrible fashion.

After the first node set, our game plan actually was to attack Mael come second node set. In fact, most of us actually did get all the way to the Mael node (save for the poor buggers who are too slow to realize the rest of the team left), but Adders followed us. When we reached the closest Mael node Adders rammed right into our backsides about 1 minute into fighting and preceded to sandwich us against Mael. They followed our team all the way across the map to do this. At that point we ended up trying to pull out because there was no way to take the Mael node with Adders chomping on our butts the entire time. The idea was to try to get Mael and adders to fight, but they only kind of bounced off each other and Adder kept on chasing us. Mael fell back and sat on their nodes, and Adders continued to chase us around the caves.

After this, Mael secured their point lead and the rest of the Flames were too pissed off to care anymore. So we said F it and went on the attack. I'm assuming Adders were ticked off because we had killed so many of them in the first charge, but that's not really an excuse to play like idiots.

Thing is though, I really couldn’t blame Adders for this, because they did worse than we did. By the end of the match, Adders pushed us so far away from their own spawn that, once the Flames finally gave up on trying to attack Mael, we completely obliterated the Adders and took second. This was also due to the fact that Mael, unlike Adders, let us leave when our attack failed. They didn’t chase and let us take care of the Adders who were on our bums (probably because they didn’t see a point in getting involved, but still. It was nice of them.) The points were close, but Adders didn’t even clinch second place because they just would not let us go. They lost more points trying to recklessly chase us around the map than they gained off of any node captures they had.

I also realize what it probably looked like to the Adders. I’ve been in the same spot with Adders or Mael attacking us right off the bat (though not usually with such completely unbalanced node spawns). However, when the nodes are dead, it’s time to leave. There’s always a few idiots who don’t get this, but it’s very rare to have an ENTIRE TEAM play with pure stupidity. Honestly, I feel more sympathy to the few Adders that were likely on their team who were desperately trying to get the rest of the group to stop acting like idiots and throwing the match. Especially considering that whenever the Flames actually stopped to defend themselves, the Adders would take a massive dip in points off of their deaths. You'd think weak players would act more cautiously, but the more they died, the more they chased. This kind of gameplay is silly no matter which GC is doing it.

The point is, and the same point I’ve made since this thread was started, is that it happens regardless of which side of the fence you’re on. Sometimes you just run into that extra special group of people who let it turn into a grudge match instead of going for the win. It’s absolutely idiotic to take a vendetta out against one specific team just because they attacked first, especially at the expense of letting the other team walk all over you. It happens, obviously, to all of the GC’s, but it’s rare to see it get so out of hand.

[Februs]

Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

I don't know about this. I've never checked the numbers myself, but I'm rocking a 40% win rate this week, so far, and that's pretty standard for me. As far as I've personally seen, the three GC's are pretty even in terms of win/loss ratio.

[Februs]

No one is teaming up against you. Stop looking for excuses that aren't there for your losses. Its a three way fight, eventually someone is gonna get sandwiched because of node placements. Besides maelstrom starting to consider flames the bigger threat to victory than adders, at least during the evening hours, so why would we waste our time pointlessly double teaming the last place team?

This is exactly right. You're one of the few people I've seen in this thread acknowledge the fact that it happens three ways, and that it's not some grand conspiracy. Don't get me wrong, grudge cycling happens, but there's no lasting arrangements or never ending vendetta between two specific GC's.

As it happens, Mael has been surprisingly the bigger threat for Flames this week as well... We've had to keep a close eye on you reds lately...