NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

[KarstenS]

In HW, Alex is the new Coil.

No. Alex (normal) is the answer to threads like this:

It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

Alex (savage) is the new coil and it has always been statet by the producer this way.

But thats not the Issue here. The issue is the burn out of the raiders because of the way the normal mode got implented and that it could not get ignored by those, who just want to go into savage.

[Khyan]

I don't see any problem with Alex normal mode as a raider. Grind was in FFXIV since day one.
And hope the dev doesn't nerf/echo savage since normal mode is here.

However, savage is a C/C boss fight with more and deadly mechanics. It's boring, I wanted to see new bosses with hard mechanics, not the same boss, but well... deal with it.

[FeliAiko]

The NM and Savage concept is fine to me. The problem was with the execution. As it's supposed to be a 'story raid', rewards from NM should've amounted to vanity/glamour gear (like with the Odin trial, for example). Meanwhile Savage difficulty should've been brought to that of Second/Final Coil levels (or perhaps just above), then this wouldve satisfied both camps IMO.

[Spellbinder]

Alex (savage) is the new coil and it has always been statet by the producer this way.

Source? Last I saw, he compared Alexander (Savage) to a hypothetical savage version of Final Coil of Bahamut, something I would hardly consider the "standard" for your average raider.

[Brian_]

I don't think there is enough incentive to do Savage but I don't think it's because of the NM / Savage dynamic. I think it's because there isn't enough to do with the gear you get. As it is, you only get gear in this game to help you clear the next tier of raid content and stand around in town looking pretty.

For the work that you need to put into progression, a lot of people have come to the conclusion that it's not worth it. That's why you have so many statics breaking up and players quitting the game.

People are forgetting a very important idea in MMOs and one the developers of this game have tried to stress. You want casual players to become hard-core players. If you don't have a steady influx of hard core players, eventually that part of the community will die out and your game will suffer as a result.

A lot of people I knew who were casual wanted to get into raiding with HW. Some of them had done parts of coil with echo and really liked what they experienced with the story and cool gear. They were at the door-step of becoming the hard-core player that SE covets. Then they tried Alexander Savage.

They went in, saw that it was the same thing as normal but with harder mechanics and raid checks, saw that the gear was basically the same thing with a higher ilevel, and just gave up on it. They didn't feel like they needed anything from Savage. So, a lot of them just went back to the daily routine of capping eso and maybe red scrips if they were gatherers / crafters, and a lot of them have quit since there is basically nothing to do if you don't do Savage.

SE really messed up. They had the chance to really hook a lot of their new HW subs and they dropped the ball because they didn't implement the proper progression and incentives for their casual players to become mid-core or hard-core players. They forgot their own design philosophy.

In a lot of other MMOs I've played, the gear itself is enough incentive. It lasts longer and is more relevant. In this game, PvP is synced so your gear doesn't matter much and a lot of the PvE experience is also synced. I remember my first time playing WoW and getting crushed by some level 50 horde in epic gear. I wanted revenge. I wanted to be better. It gave me something to aspire towards and hooked me. I remember doing raids and dungeons with raid-geared players and being star-struck. That dynamic does not exist in FFXIV.

So really, it's about how to make a healthier game. I don't get the animosity between the different groups. Why are casual players even upset that they don't get to experience all the content? They wouldn't anyways. I don't see people complaining about there being too many classes / jobs in this game because they can't get around to experiencing all their stories. Is there so little content for casuals to enjoy that they have to take content away from raiders? It doesn't make sense to me.

[PFM]

While I've not yet stepped foot into XIV's raiding scene I have a tremendous wealth of raiding experience in general: Normal means "You had damn well better have done your clear this week or else you're going to be getting the stink eye, miss three in a row and I'll probably kick you, because you don't care." It doesn't matter if this "Normal" is a failure-proof version of the same content or a Dungeon that drops similar loot.

Burnout isn't solely the players job to mitigate but also the designer's. If there's no other outlet of acquisition that isn't 0 effort currency quagmire, you've let a part of your community down. As it stands I've seen near half a dozen MMOS try the vaunted "Difficulty Mode" of a fight that isn't an organic one and without fail it ends up severely destroying aspirant class of player and forcing the high end players construct an incestuous walled city where literally only THOSE players are even bothering with content anymore.

[Kenji1134]

One possible solution (as already proposed) would be to add a "third" version, "Normal Mode" and simply double the drops in Savage.

So we'd have the following layout:
Story Mode: 190 gear (tokens), basic mechanics.
Normal Mode (Roughly Coil Difficulty): 210 gear (2 items), new mechanics, slightly higher boss hp/damage output, MAYBE a bonus boss or new phase in every fight to add an experience or minor lore incentive, without affecting the outcomes from Story Mode.
Savage Mode (Current Savage Difficulty): 210 gear (4 items), no new mechanics from Normal Mode, just tighter dps and healing checks.

The idea is that you do Story Mode for the overall story and to see the fights.

Then you have Normal Mode which is for the "mid-core" raider, which is most of the raiding community, where you get better gear, new mechanics, and a new phase or boss form change in each fight, like having an actual "Boss" on Floor 2, or having the Manipulator with reduced HP, but when you beat it, the "Pilot" comes out as a second phase, creating a whole new fight.
Your reward for completing Normal Mode lore wise, would be additional exposition, adding some interesting details to flesh out the story, without having any real effect on the outcomes of Story Mode.

And finally we'd have Savage Mode, for the real hardcore raiders who want it to HURT.
Same mechanics as Normal, same extra phases/sub-bosses, just tighter dps and healing checks to REALLY make the most of your gear and skill... Basically this would be the "how long can we stump Lucrezia" version.
The reward for beating Savage is that you get 2x, if not 3x as many drops per Floor, as a reward for overcoming the challenge. Of course Normal Mode and Savage Mode would share a lockout, to force people to make a conscious choice about whether they want 2 drops from Normal, of try their luck in Savage for 4, maybe 6 drops. - There's your hardcore raider incentive.

[Reinha]

I didn't read the thread from start to finish because by the time I got to page 20 there were almost 50 pages, so this may have been mentioned. To the people asking for NM to be released after Savage Mode, isn't that pretty much the same thing as echo was? A mechanic that could be canceled but which so many raiders despised? I don't understand why people (raiders) first ask for echo to go away and now they ask for a staggered release which pretty much has the exact same effect of allowing less advanced players to see the content later.

Wouldn't it be better to just ask for NM gear to not work in SM, and for the NM clear requirement to be removed? Then there really wouldn't be any reason to enter NM before SM and everyone would get to enjoy content at the same time.

Just preparing my umbrella to shield me from the tears when the ilv210 aetherial equips drops and casual players start rolling around with full ilv210 sets with optmized stats while some complain about the lack of utility of the new raid gear.

And it will cause complains too, because people will be getting the same tier gear people who raid get, but from easier and slow/steady content, and the raiders will cringe and rage again because their equips and rewards aren't the very best and blah blah blah.

I have to say I chuckled a little when reading these points. Surely it will be received well seeing as people have been asking for horizontal progression for a long time... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Raiders too can soon go grind gear pieces to build the ultimate stat stacking sets, so they can to do almost the same dps in a slightly different way. Lol superb.

[Nadirah]

I find it mind boggling that some of you people think Alex normal is any harder than dungeon bosses.

They're only difficult when people outright refuse to do mechanics or want to troll everyone else(like you, you jackass whm, that passed Nisi to *everyone* and then yelled at us for wiping... yeah, I saw that. jerk).

[Gilthas]

The NM and Savage concept is fine to me. The problem was with the execution. As it's supposed to be a 'story raid', rewards from NM should've amounted to vanity/glamour gear (like with the Odin trial, for example). Meanwhile Savage difficulty should've been brought to that of Second/Final Coil levels (or perhaps just above), then this wouldve satisfied both camps IMO.

How in the hells could you ever possibly believe that making the rewards for NM Alexander irrelevant crap "would've satisfied both camps". Do you think hardcore raiders are happy when people suggest that Savage shouldn't drop anything?