Lets nerf WAR :D

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Also: 25% damage for 10s equates to one GCD, keep in mind that when PLD has to swap it loses 2 GCD - two jumps worth for a WAR - straight up before it loses its 20% damage, a disadvantage to the point where most probably don't even swap until the jump and just drop the shield oath buff. This is in the two jump scenario, anything progression wise PLD is clearly still worse off

Dont forget about Unchained lol. When I go into Defiance to prep for the recovery after a buster I: Defience, Unchained, Berserk, Path combo, take hit or hits, I will usually have an IB up after hit, Equilibrium, IB, ToB, Deliverance

Really if you are using unchained in this way you really dont lose any DPS outside of losing Fell Cleave

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

You'd do way more dps doing a triple FC under Berserk after the siren and after jump(s) imo.

I mean Unchained is definitely great as a safe way of doing dps (especially including healer dps), but Berserk under Deliverance is much better for your personal dps than using Berserk with Unchained.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

You'd do way more dps doing a triple FC under Berserk after the siren and after jump(s) imo.

I mean Unchained is definitely great as a safe way of doing dps (especially including healer dps), but Berserk under Deliverance is much better for your personal dps than using Berserk with Unchained.

I typically time my Berserk for the increase to Equilibrium after Hyper Compressed Plasma. You can still triple Fell Cleave, just simply do not IB after you Equilibrium. Worst case scenario you get only a double zerk Fell Cleave.

[Syzygian]

@Syzygian
Exactly: my point was that why are people saying how warrior is OPed with storm's path when DRK can potentially have both -int and -dmg up at the same time? (esp one that knows how to save Reprisal procs for the busts - but that is also the pt, what if RNG hates you and you just don't parry before a bust?).

Much of my argument is about "each tank have something really strong about them in their specialty". Warrior does not need a nerf, at least not without readjusting the other tank's strengths in their respective domain.

On innerbeast:
Yes, it is strong. Warriors have always had it. It consumes our Wrath stacks (lose parry chance), and as silly as it sound, it compete with Fell Cleave (and also unchained) which is arguably the premise of why people are complaining about warriors: warriors doing a lot of damage while tanking in deliverance. Sure, we can go into defiance before a bust and hit IB, but dps loss is dps loss - note all other classes can still use their full arsenal of cooldowns not being in tank stance.

As pointed out earlier, plds have a stronger set of active cooldown and the passive RNG protect of their shield. Also due to healing skills not being affected by the defiance healing buff, the passive damage reduction of a pld is also a better one.

As Disc pointed out your wording is dubious at best and sounds like you're saying something completely different. This comes off as backpedaling.

Also tank mitigation and utility is for the most part, equal, and I never implied otherwise in this thread. PLD's utility is made useless by the content, and the real discrepancies are in DPS.

[technole]

Dont forget about Unchained lol. When I go into Defiance to prep for the recovery after a buster I: Defience, Unchained, Berserk, Path combo, take hit or hits, I will usually have an IB up after hit, Equilibrium, IB, ToB, Deliverance

Really if you are using unchained in this way you really dont lose any DPS outside of losing Fell Cleave

I actually heard someone in my FC said Unchained was now worthless and I was like you couldn't be more wrong. Some forget that Defiance-Unchained is practically is another "defensive" cooldown that can be used in the DPS rotation to help recover on healing with Equalibrium, IB, Thrill while still keeping DPS up, then after they can assess if can go back to Deliverance to spend stacks.

[Kuwagami]

I actually heard someone in my FC said Unchained was now worthless

That one person should drop the axe and never touch it again. Unchained is still a huge dps CD (or rather, it became a great defensive CD)

[technole]

That one person should drop the axe and never touch it again. Unchained is still a huge dps CD (or rather, it became a great defensive CD)

I already knew they were a questionable WAR based on my past experience with them in FCoB, and of course he had all his character stats and right sides in VIT as well, so yeah.

Plus Infuriate-Unchained is totally a must whenever possible in a main tank opener, and now it's more awesome being used as a defensive CD while going to pound town.

[RiisWolf]

Nerfing warriors fixes nothing.

Paladin have been and still are horribly designed. Weakest threat modifiers paired with weakest damage= WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! Also Sword Oath at level 30 instead of Shield Oath. All the defenses being 20% or a multiple of 20% with bad RNG, an active mitigation that blocks only one of any physical attack. And the poor self sustainability wouldn't be so bad if they didn't tank just as well as everyone else, that is a big NO, NO, when building a "King of Tanks"! Clemency is powered by STR instead of being percentage based, which means it's weak for pure VIT tanks. Let's not forget to mention their only claim to fame: Sentinel and Hallowed Ground, where both of which have very long CDs. And their CDs are too long for them to be relying on them. It's bad so back a lot of PLDs stagger CDs and take the hits unmitigated, making it harder on the healer. Staggering CDs is NOT good tanking! It shows how inefficient and ineffective PLDs really are. DRK are riding the same boat about this. And PLDs are inept at AoE damage, could have had gore blade be an AoE, but NOPE, lets annoyingly flash our glimmer at things and hope we don't get stuck with DPS that is equally as bad at AoE, in which case is usually entirely by cluelessness after level 50.

Oh yes let's not forget how 2.0 made Warriors incapable of tanking, and Paladins the most useless garbage there was because NO THREAT. In fact PLD was patched the most times because of this.
And don't get me started on DRK.

PLD and DRK are bad because of bad design.

[RiisWolf]

I already knew they were a questionable WAR based on my past experience with them in FCoB, and of course he had all his character stats and right sides in VIT as well, so yeah.

Plus Infuriate-Unchained is totally a must whenever possible in a main tank opener, and now it's more awesome being used as a defensive CD while going to pound town.

Boosting time to kill which means less damage taken in the long run.
Boosting threat, otherwise defenses are worthless when everyone is ignoring you.
Boosting damage for more lifesteals, the Warrior's main source of self sustainability.

[Syzygian]

Oh yes let's not forget how 2.0 made Warriors incapable of tanking, and Paladins the most useless garbage there was because NO THREAT. In fact PLD was patched the most times because of this.
And don't get me started on DRK.

PLD and DRK are bad because of bad design.

Please get started on DRK. I'd love to hear.

DRK has only 1 CD with a recast of more than 90s, not counting Living Dead, I've never had to stagger CDs in any fight that required full uptime of mitigation (which is very few). In A2S for example, there's zero need to pop a CD in the last 30 seconds of finishing off the last mob or two in any of the waves. Hell you spend half that fight out of tank stance until the Jagd Dolls show up anyway.

DRK is not far behind WAR in terms of viability, really the only thing it is missing that WAR has is a slashing debuff and the very high OT DPS and burst. DRK can actually outperform WAR in MT DPS with proper stance dancing and the slashing debuff, albeit not by much. DRK is nowhere near as problematic as PLD is right now. DRK is actually very well designed if you know how to properly use its tools (i.e. popping Dark Dance to proc Reprisal when you need it, not boosting your evasion/blinding things when you have Blood Price up, and other such dumb mistakes that people like to say are a fault of the job's design and not of their poor play). Get it to 60 and start progressing in savage on it and then we can talk about its design.