How do you deal with sluggish tanks?

[Picori]

Lot of times I will be playing with my tank friend and sometimes like raging strikes not up yet so tell him I need 30 seconds or so left before pull on boss.
We talking on team speak so it's not in the party chat. So looks like he is just standing there before pulls.

[Disc]

One thing to keep in mind, even though DDs and healers might allow them to pull at faster pace, it means nothing if the tank is unable to tank at such a pace. Better players can slow down, but less skilled players usually can't speed up.

Btw. if according to you slow tanks/healers are arrogant, what are our average dps players then?

Flash, Overpower, and Unleash allow all tanks to effortlessly tank entire packs of mobs. The only way you could possibly have trouble tanking them is if you decided to drop your stance & try to DPS. At that point it's on the healer, and it's annoying to me when healing if the DPS & I have to leave the tank behind because he just doesn't wanna run the dungeon he queue'd for.

It would be different if the issue was that your healer wasn't good enough to keep up. But that's rarely the case, healing in dungeons is extremely easy.

So does this "I am DPS, you must do as I demand at the speed I demand, whether you like it or not" mentality.

How about we replace it with a "We're a team, let's work together to make it smooth and fun" mentality?

And by work together you mean the tank & healer should not be expected to put any effort into their roles? You gotta give if you wanna get. If you play an in demand role like tank so you can get away with acting like a diva you're going to generate a lot of enmity among your party members.

Lot of times I will be playing with my tank friend and sometimes like raging strikes not up yet so tell him I need 30 seconds or so left before pull on boss.
We talking on team speak so it's not in the party chat. So looks like he is just standing there before pulls.

For those 30 seconds you have four members doing 0 damage. In return you have gained 20% more damage for 20 seconds. I would probably be more bothered to find out that is the reason the tank is acting like he's afk. I've been tempted to just drop when tanks pull that after a crit adloquium.

[Astral145]

Simple I pull out my trusty Bumper Thumper and give the tanks a good thumping. :P

[Sida]

DF is for everyone, for young and old, casual and raiders. Not just for career gamers. As long as the run goes smooth enough with no deaths and stuff dying, nothing to complain. If I happen to have a time constraint that's less than the time given by DF, I tell about it up front in the start (and I don't even queue if I have less than at least half an hour) Even then I don't try to rush the party, I just mention that I need to leave at that time, even if the run is still going.

For the record, some of the quickest ex runs I've got was with tank who only pulls one or two groups at time. That kept me as healer pretty much full time damaging and stuff died way faster than with these "need to pull whole level" mentality tanks.

[PFM]

I got two monitors for a reason fam. I just go make money while tank is waiting on cooldowns/eating a sandwich/explaining to his mom that it's NOT a fetish but a lifestyle

[PheonixCain]

Play a tank if you want to set the pace.

exactly, i hate those sluggish tanks, most tanks i got in DF are either extremely undergeared or pulling every pack one by another, sometimes i asked them to pull more, but than again i dont want them to pull the four bees in neverreap cuz i dont think they cud manage that shit, some of them replied me that they dont know if they cud handle more adds with their low level gears, but honestly we ran with i150~i160> gears when heavensward just released and we even pulled more than that...


so at the end i just give up bothering with that, and que expert as a tank myself and NEVER STOP pressing forward, and being like "OH YOU WANT TO REST? HOW ABOUT GOT OUT OF THE DUNGEON?", "DON'T YOU FRIGGIN STOP MOVING AND BETTER CATCH UP WITH ME SOLDIERS!" etc etc

it solves the problem perfectly

[Syzygian]

I main DRK, a job pretty well engineered for big pulls and speed-running dungeons. I never pull fewer than 4 mobs in either ex dungeon if I can help it, and yet, there's DPS for whom that is still not fast enough.

Waiting for healer MP within reason is a completely legitimate cause for pause between pulls especially if you're like me and you pull sufficient trash to threaten your life without heals for the first few moments until one or two of said mobs are picked off, thus leaving healer MP exhausted afterwards. Buffs are also legitimate, and for those of you bitching about ready checks, allow me to direct you to this video courtesy of the one and only Xenosys Vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXrO8avT_4

As a tank I feel it is my job to facilitate maximum performance from the rest of the party. By no means am I the only one that controls the pace of the run, but unless the DPS are literally just running around pulling stuff willy-nilly, I do control how quickly we move from pack to pack, get those packs in position and kill them efficiently, and a tank's utility to 4-man dungeons is facilitating this sequence of events. The healers and DPS set the pace, I simply set that pace into execution, and adapt to the best of my ability.

If you as a DPS (and I mained DPS (DRG) before 3.0, with PLD/WAR as secondaries) cannot stand to wait for the tank to do his thing (and I've almost never encountered a tank that literally waited 1 or more minutes between pulls or before a boss without communicating a reason), and feel the need to behave in ways that are rude because its anonymous, its the DF, then you can expect the same in return. For a DPS to pull a mob that the tank is waiting a couple of server ticks longer to pull is a direct insult to the tank. Not allowing a ***few seconds*** between pulls and throwing a hissy fit about it when the tank has a legitimate reason or at the very least, a non-malicious intention, is like slamming a door into someone's face when they asked if you could hold it for them.

As a tank I never yell at the healer if I die, I realize that I pull big and it doesn't always work out even if I warn them first and pop big CDs. I never yell at my DPS if they aren't putting out A4S-enrage-beating numbers (tho I may talk smack in an LS off to the side...), but I stand by the idea that you can't please everyone. Its the goddamn DF, its never going to be perfect, and if you expect speed-runs every time with massive AoE deepz dropping huge pulls of trash in 20 seconds, those expectations are simply unrealistic and you have no one to blame but yourself for having them. Even doing large pulls at a brisk pace, the flip side of the coin for the OP is the DPS that doesn't wait for you to get mobs in position before they go ham, and then rips off the tank and proceeds to give them shit about it.

Protip for DPS that love speed-runs: Your ability to go ham and rip hate on the first of many mobs your tank tags to be pulled into a corner and efficiently AoE'd down directly slows down the run, because now I've gotta tab to the mob you are now tanking, voke+Unmend it, and if you're continuing to go ham on that same target without switching, or if you are a ranged and not running it within my melee range, I will have no choice, if I want to get the thing off you, but to run my ass all the way over to you and Power Slash it off you, ruining my AoE DPS, throwing the 7 other mobs I pulled out of position, gimping and potentially endangering (if any of them cleave) the other DPS, and turning my back to the remaining trash, meaning I can't parry and thus take more damage, gimping the healer's DPS. So you're actually directly slowing down your own precious speed-run just to say "hey check out how badass I am not watching my threat meter! i'm totally making this tank look like a scrub!"

Treat people with respect folks. If a run doesn't go your way I guarantee you there was something YOU could have done to have made it not/less so, and I would ask that everyone, not just DPS, consider that before pissing in the cheerios of a stranger because your esos didn't get served to you on a mythrite platter fast enough. The problem is so many people have an attitude of infallibility that the flaw is always with other people's way of doing things or playing. I don't care if you're wearing a Domitor title and full i210 gear. In no way is that a license to be a douchebag to random people in an element of content that is designed for everybody, and to do so anyway is categorically immature and selfish. Speed-runs are a wonderful thing, they add an element of intensity and challenge to content that can get very easy and stale. But currently the DF doesn't have a "speed-run" checkbox; until it does, deal with it.

[Aiselia]

And by work together you mean the tank & healer should not be expected to put any effort into their roles?

No, by work together, I mean that people should drop the attitude like yours and not scream and cry that everyone that isn't playing how they want to play is just being lazy and bad.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

easy just run ahead and bring a few groups to lazy tank and if you die before tank grabs agro kick tank for tanking too slow.

[rawker]

If some DRG pulls ahead of me, i'll let him tank it and just laught at his corpse.