Raider to Non-Raider: an exhibition on thoughts and misconceptions

[TheUltimate3]

Honestly, I'm almost at the conclusion that the largest part of the raiding community in this game is just bad. As I've said earlier, if the complaint about Savage is that is actually hard, and that SE should make a slightly less hard Alexander (or equivalent) is disgraceful and one shouldn't even call themselves a raider at that point. Criticism about the mechanics, the loot drops, that is fine. But if the issue is Savage is actually difficult for the majority and they should make something easier? Get out of here. And again, this is coming from a scrub who has in order of raiding history never progressed out of Karazhan due to guild poaching, made it to the Amphitheater of Uldar all of once maybe two times, and never made it past the Crimson Halls before it was nerfed to oblivion.

I can only hope SE has heard the cries of the anguished though, and proceed with the next tier of raiding appropriately;

1) Alex NM2 only dropping tomes. Having gear in it makes Savage Alexander gear is not worth having. So as an intensive to have people actually do it, it will just drop tomes. Slightly more than the expert roulette.

2) Alexander Savage be equivalent in difficulty/mechanics to 2nd/3rd Coil. From what I understand, going exclusively by the complaints lobbied about it, Savage Alexander is harder than Coil or at least more gear dependent than the last bindings of Coil. As such, make them more equivalent to the last two Coil, which again unless I'm mistaken, brings the difficulty down to more..."reasonable levels".

3) Beating the last floor of Savage will give each party member a upgrade item for whatever set is available at the time. No rolling for it, you just get it, for the incentive to run it.

For bonuses, I'd bump up the levels of all the Trials and raids to 60 and remove the lvl 50 versions in general.

[Sapphic]

Honestly, I'm almost at the conclusion that the largest part of the raiding community in this game is just bad. As I've said earlier, if the complaint about Savage is that is actually hard,

It's not tho. Biggest complaint is that normal Alex was a mandatory part of the progression path and that players burnt out on it before Savage was released. That there is nothing different in Savage, that there is no story to discover, no new mobs to beat. It's rehashed, plus the difficulty is more gearcentric than SCoB for example which was heavily mechanics based in difficulty.

The heavy gear check difficulty of Savage Alex was in response to a very small part of the raiding community being able to circumvent the planned gearing progression through FCoB by the use of penta-melded gear. The majority of the raiding community still progressed at the expected rate. SE took it way to the extreme in Savage.

For me the best Raid tier that was balanced between mechanics and gear progression was SCoB.

Also doesn't help that one of the most popular tanks, PLD, is a detriment in comparison to WAR and DRK in savage so long term PLD raiders where forced to change.

[Myleus]

That's why we need to distribute all the endgame in several raids,not only Alexander. For example, 2 sets of 4 raids each one with 8man and other with 16 ppl to use actual and future jobs more effectly.

Rewards between them should be suitable to beam the ohers raids but we will need more customizable gear, with set bonus and new sockets for materia, not only in pvp.

[TheUltimate3]

It's not tho. Biggest complaint is that normal Alex was a mandatory part of the progression path and that players burnt out on it before Savage was released.

And that is fine. That is a legit complaint.

But my rant was directed at those who see Savage as too difficult and demand something easier in it's place. They can suck it.

And no, I don't adhere to the idea of "midcore". I've heard enough people not agree to what it even means to come to my own conclusion that if you aren't good enough for what you believe is "hardcore" then you shouldn't be doing it at all.

[siverstorm]

The OP pretty much hits the nail on the head, on one hand we have overly simple raid with alex nm and on the other we have viciously tuned savage. The fights themselves are not incredibly fun or interesting either. Arguably pepsiman was a well done fight, but I don't think I know a single person who's turned around and said "oh boy I love Manipulator so much! Can't wait to go back in there!"

I've noticed the same thing, my linkshells are emptying out, people are quitting, people are leaving server hoping they'll find something better. I personally don't mind the challenge given to us by A3 and A4 but it doesn't take a PhD to see that a lack of a middle ground destroyed a lot of groups motivation.

The mid-core and even lots of hard-core raiders are quitting in droves. A single person quitting your static could spell the end if you can't find a suitable replacement. And lord is it hard to find a suitable replacement, even during coil.

For me the best Raid tier that was balanced between mechanics and gear progression was SCoB.

Yaaas, SCoB was easily the most fun raid tier for me. Tuning was perfect imo dps checks and mechanics were well thought out. Groups spent most of their time learning how to deal with mechanics and the fights were tuned so that players outside of the "true elite" (or however we're classing the world first players and such) could still reasonably kill it before nerfs/echo.

I personally disagree with that, but I'm not here to change opinions on that. I do, however, think they tuned normal Alexander a little too low.

Basically it was poor wording. Savage Alexander =/= Savage SCoB simply because savage second coil was completely optional in the sense that it removed 2/3 from the points in the OP. There was no new story (obviously), but there was also no relevant loot so there goes two large motivators for players/groups. The remainder of the people who did it (or desperately tried to find a group to do it like myself) usually did so for the challenge, the fights were mechanically very fun even though they were extremely difficult.

If they dropped alexander normal on us with i190 gear then dropped savage alexander with the exact same gear but just titles you'd probably have the exact same reception that savage second coil got. Massive lack of interest until people were just simply so bored that they'd try it.

[Rin_Kuroi]

I've noticed the same thing, my linkshells are emptying out, people are quitting, people are leaving server hoping they'll find something better. I personally don't mind the challenge given to us by A3 and A4 but it doesn't take a PhD to see that a lack of a middle ground destroyed a lot of groups motivation.

I'm seeing this a lot. I'm part of a big free company and we only have a few active statics now. We used to have a dozen. It's because we rofl-stomped alex nm then ran into a brickwall with alex savage. Only the most hardcore are still active.

Also, I actually enjoy the Manipulator fight.

[Faeon]

I'm seeing this a lot. I'm part of a big free company and we only have a few active statics now. We used to have a dozen. It's because we rofl-stomped alex nm then ran into a brickwall with alex savage. Only the most hardcore are still active.

Also, I actually enjoy the Manipulator fight.

Agree, when ran into Alex Savage, it killed statics

[Mercutial]

Agree, when ran into Alex Savage, it killed statics

To be honest, I think a lot of the statics that were "killed" were never really raid-ready anyway. Savage was not gated behind the previous top-tier raid, so everyone and their mother decided to group up just because they could. Faust was a rude awakening and a pretty funny troll move by SE.

Not that most of the players were bad per se, but there was certainly more of an opportunity for a bad apple to get into a group for content where a single person cannot be carried (at least out the gate). As a result, turnover ensues. Bonds which may have been fresh to begin with are made even newer - making it easier to abandon groups having less invested in them personally.

[zosia]

To be honest, I think a lot of the statics that were "killed" were never really raid-ready anyway. Savage was not gated behind the previous top-tier raid, so everyone and their mother decided to group up just because they could. Faust was a rude awakening and a pretty funny troll move by SE.

Not that most of the players were bad per se, but there was certainly more of an opportunity for a bad apple to get into a group for content where a single person cannot be carried (at least out the gate). As a result, turnover ensues. Bonds which may have been fresh to begin with are made even newer - making it easier to abandon groups having less invested in them personally.

I partly disagree. There were usually about six groups ahead of ours on my server progression wise. These groups typically killed bosses before and were some of our server's best players. That number has been reduced to three. Those other statics got burnt out and disbanded because it's not fun to progress on the same fight for a month.

People take a break, like it is so often recommended and that player leaving usually is the strand that unravels the whole sweater since it is extremely hard now to replace people if you're progressing on a4s.

Many new HW statics did just run straight into the faust wall, but we have seen other groups that were long standing in ARR just evaporate under the pressure of savage.

I may be wrong but middle of the road raiders probably make up the majority of raiders. It's too bad they are being left out in the cold.

Exactly! Even Elysium in an interview said that this raid might have been tuned too high. They were the world 1st a4s clear, the quote can be seen below. I don't want to link the website directly since it's to playboy, but the article is very easy to find with the google machine.

“Even for the hardcore players most of us feel that Alexander Savage was tuned a little too high,” Gouka admitted. “Maybe something that takes two to three weeks is fine, but when you’re spending an entire month essentially on the same fight it gets a little bit ridiculous.”

edit: I found the tweet that linked the article, so here is a link to elysium's tweet about the article. https://twitter.com/elysiumffxiv/sta...55604715024385