HQ and NQ stat gap needs to close (Both should allow max stats with materia):

[Katlyna]

This is dangerously close to being a request to just get rid of HQ's.

I concur the difference should be dangerously close but satisfying. After sitting and thinking more I think for simplicity sake I would probably personally simply make NQ and HQ stats equal leave NQ with 1-2 slots and HQ with 3-4 slots. This would make NQ a frown, and HQ a super YES. I would also increase the difficulty of HQ such that all of us would be NQing more often. And I would make sure max melds are possible given available materia (NQ melds should be relatively expensive, while HQ would be only a moderate cost. While I would love a third quality (making the system more granular) I doubt there is space to implement something like this in a reasonable timeline.

The above changes would make the system less frustrating and more rewarding to players of all experience and gear levels IMO.

[Silverbane]

The above changes would make the system less frustrating and more rewarding to players of all experience and gear levels IMO.

Another way of putting that is: it would make crafting less challenging and lower the relative value of achieving HQ. That's sort of "Everyone gets a trophy," and not much fun in my opinion, like putting an "Easy button" on Savage content.

After all, it's dead simple to NQ any recipe you qualify to craft, and you're proposing that all the skill and luck that is required to obtain HQ just gives two extra materia slots? I prefer the current system: a challenging system where overcoming risks is nicely rewarded.

[Katlyna]

Another way of putting that is: it would make crafting less challenging and lower the relative value of achieving HQ. That's sort of "Everyone gets a trophy," and not much fun in my opinion, like putting an "Easy button" on Savage content.

After all, it's dead simple to NQ any recipe you qualify to craft, and you're proposing that all the skill and luck that is required to obtain HQ just gives two extra materia slots? I prefer the current system: a challenging system where overcoming risks is nicely rewarded.

Right but... exactly how skill based is HQing an item? Don't get me wrong a more skilled crafter has and knows a number of tricks. But NQ items are not the result of a failure of skill. They're a failure of extremely bad RNG.

With that said, my proposal would work best with a LQ, NQ, HQ... where LQ is what current NQ is (basically worthless and 20 ilevels lower). And the bar for that would be something like reach 50-60% quality at least.

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But you are right and Alistaire said it best "This is dangerously close to being a request to just get rid of HQ's." Don't get me wrong I enjoy skill based progression and a world where HQ has meaning and NQ is annoying but acceptable. But if you recall during 2.x crafting with four star Artisan and foragers gear (not including Mainhand/Offhand/Chest) NQ could be maxed out with materia. But making NQ was none the less frustrating, but the good still had value. It was maybe 20-30% of the HQ value (which on some servers was under material prices later in the 2.x cycle). But IMO this was not a bad place for crafting to be at. And I think most people would concur crafting was healthier during the 4 star patch cycles.

Right now the difference between NQ and HQ is just unacceptable if you ask me.

[Silverbane]

Right but... exactly how skill based is HQing an item? Don't get me wrong a more skilled crafter has and knows a number of tricks. But NQ items are not the result of a failure of skill. They're a failure of extremely bad RNG.

Some people prefer chess, others prefer poker.

Crafting is like poker: a lot depends on the cards you draw, but a skilled player can somewhat compensate for bad luck.
Some people choose rotations that minimize the impact of bad luck, others choose ones that create more opportunities is for good luck. And you can adapt in mid-craft if you know how.

And the RNG does not seem that bad. I've only crafted six L60 2-Stars tools so far, plus the required number of 2-star mats, and only 2 mats have come out NQ. None of the tool have. Someone else reported doing 20 HQ crafts without any NQ. So I don't see the odds being all that bad. But the stakes are pretty high - and I like it that way. YMMV.

[MN_14]

Crafting is like poker: a lot depends on the cards you draw, but a skilled player can somewhat compensate for bad luck.

And the RNG does not seem that bad.

The odds of an NQ are really low if you craft carefully and aren't bottle-necked by excessively low CP. At 440 CP, I had 2 NQs out of around 30 2* materials and at 455 CP, I've gotten no NQs out of around 40 crafts in total (materials and final crafts). This gives me an overall HQ yield of roughly 97% (no NQ gear pieces or tools) and a 100% HQ yield since my CP upgrades. Sooner or later, I should be getting more NQ materials because not all of my crafts are at 100%, although the majority of them are. Fortunately, the final crafts are usually not a problem at all because your starting quality can be fairly high.

That said, I do agree that the stats of an NQ tool/gear piece should probably be closer to the HQ stats to give them some value. Ideally, I think a player should be able to meet the 3* requirements with a setup consisting of mostly melded HQ gear, with allowances for one or two melded NQ pieces.

[Katlyna]

And the RNG does not seem that bad. I've only crafted six L60 2-Stars tools so far, plus the required number of 2-star mats, and only 2 mats have come out NQ. None of the tool have. Someone else reported doing 20 HQ crafts without any NQ. So I don't see the odds being all that bad. But the stakes are pretty high - and I like it that way. YMMV.

So functionally speaking NQ vs HQ doesn't matter to me at all. I HQ 99% of my items and what I don't HQ my wallet can handle. The problem I have with the system is how do I advice others to enter into this mess when the stakes are so high? Right now all I can honestly tell others getting into high end crafting, is take it easy, practice lots, review your rotations, etc, etc. But at the end of the day, if you're looking to go to the very end it takes a huge amount of dedication and runs serious risks until you under stand the system.

Problem is with the stakes so high almost no one makes it through the gate to this mess of red scrip crafting. I think many things need to change to get the system working for more people.

Don't get me wrong I've been crafting for a long time now and enjoy the risk, the large piles of gil on the line, and knowing my skill is well up to the challenge. Unfortunately very few of us are at this point though, and its due to a rather flawed system ;-/