Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[Kydi]

To me, warrior is the only class which appears polished. I've not finished leveling mine yet, but throughout the leveling experience, everything as slotted together and made sense so far.

Contrasting this with using PLD and DRK at 60, they both feel just a bit... cumbersome. DRK has abilities which just don't seem to mesh well and PLD has some which are hugely situational (looking at you clemency) or downright cumbersome (divine veil). Some simple tweaks to make those a bit more user friendly (and in the case of divine veil I think more powerful too) would go a long way to bringing balance back to the tanking meta.

I think the second thing to consider, while not limited to tanks, is the rethinking of esoterics gear being job locked. I get the feeling that if esoterics gear was usable by all, there would be a lot less frustration at one class or another being more/less powerful (imo). I wonder if for future expansions job gear could be locked behind quests/challenges, for instance warrior defeat x powerful enemies, DRK absorb x amount of health, PLD heal x amount of health etc.

[Syzygian]

DRKs have 25 seconds out of every 40 where Blood Price is not up and any boost to your evasion is a mitigation increase that does not harm your MP returns. People always assume you'll pop the evasion boosts at the same time as BP; this is poor play. You should only every be worrying about this on trash in dungeons however, its kind of a nonissue in raids.

[Violette]

DRKs have 25 seconds out of every 40 where Blood Price is not up and any boost to your evasion is a mitigation increase that does not harm your MP returns. People always assume you'll pop the evasion boosts at the same time as BP; this is poor play. You should only every be worrying about this on trash in dungeons however, its kind of a nonissue in raids.

Bro in A2S the only time I don't pop blood price on cooldown is between waves or during stuns. If I happen to dark arts dark dance during this time I'll curse myself but I usually gotta do it. This is punishing the players and is a bad design.

[Syzygian]

Bro in A2S the only time I don't pop blood price on cooldown is between waves or during stuns. If I happen to dark arts dark dance during this time I'll curse myself but I usually gotta do it. This is punishing the players and is a bad design.

You never need to pop DA DD anywhere in that entire fight to survive, take it from someone who's cleared. Can you even dodge in that fight? I'm pretty sure I've DAed a DD in the heat of a moment in there a handful of times on accident, and never dodged a damn thing.

Even if you want to make DA DD a part of your cooldown rotation (which is pretty damaging to DRK's otherwise very high DPS ceiling in that fight), its SO easy to rotate your cooldown usage to put it up during BP downtime. I know because I do this all the time in dungeons. Saying "if I happen to" is really just implying that you're not paying attention to your CD management. Not saying that IS what you're doing, but its how it comes off.

[Dante_V]

Overall I think whatever changes are done should be subtle in effect but matter in the long run. Something like a slight buff to sword oath and lowering the cool down (or extending the length) of fight or flight would be effective but not overbearing. Maybe even think about giving stoneskin as a natural move and allowing them to cross class with lancer might also be something that is effective. They certainly have the defensive capabilities to zero out the damage taken increase of blood for blood and let\\'s be real here, cross classing WHM abilities is the very definition of meh in terms of effective tanking outside of stoneskin in certain situations. Although giving them a trait to battle raise would give them some nice utility if they absolutely "have" to keep the WHM crosses. It would no doubt force a tank swap to use when under fire but it would add some team coordination and play into the pally meta a bit.

[Dante_V]

"Bro in A2S the only time I don't pop blood price on cooldown is between waves or during stuns. If I happen to dark arts dark dance during this time I'll curse myself but I usually gotta do it. This is punishing the players and is a bad design."

You shouldn't be popping DA/DD with BP on regardless and it isn't necessary at all. Other classes have moves of this sort also, b4b is a big one that punishes a player for popping it at the wrong time and the result is often death, which is a larger dps loss than the 15% mp regen loss you have from not using your cooldowns properly.

[MerleSirlos]

Got to read a lot of those post about the tank situation during the last month, and after reading those 11 pages I must admit this one is one of the most interesting and constructive.
For me, it feels a bit like some tools have been given to the wrong tank.
Paladin has low dps, good physical mitigation and low raid utility. Dark Knight has ok dps, good magical mitigation and ok raid utility. Warrior has high dps, good overall mitigation if done right and high raid utility. that doesn't look very balanced (and I main war by the way). So yeah, some things would be better changed.
Finding a good balance is difficult so don't blame me too much if my ideas get a little bit too over the top.

Somehow I feel like Warrior should be the one with strong physical mitigation instead of Paladin. I would swap the 10% damage down from Warrior with the 10% STR down from Paladin. put fixed parry rate depending on weapon (0% for sword, 15% for great-sword, 30% for axe) and make parry stat boost parry strength instead (and convert it to block strength for Paladin). and maybe make block work on magical damage.
Maybe also add a magic resistance down debuff to Paladin (like bard song but it should not be able to stack)
Paladin still has low dps, but gets more utility, helping increase healers and magic dps.

[Flipside101]

Increase Fracture initial hit and dot potency, and the dot dmg should translate to HP healed when we have bloodbath on.

*walks out*

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Change fracture to be like scourge but with a higher cost.

Fracture: 100 TP
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Damage over time
Potency: 40
Duration: 30s

Enhanced Fracture: Lowers TP cost by 50.

Got to read a lot of those post about the tank situation during the last month, and after reading those 11 pages I must admit this one is one of the most interesting and constructive.
For me, it feels a bit like some tools have been given to the wrong tank.
Paladin has low dps, good physical mitigation and low raid utility. Dark Knight has ok dps, good magical mitigation and ok raid utility. Warrior has high dps, good overall mitigation if done right and high raid utility. that doesn't look very balanced (and I main war by the way). So yeah, some things would be better changed.
Finding a good balance is difficult so don't blame me too much if my ideas get a little bit too over the top.

Somehow I feel like Warrior should be the one with strong physical mitigation instead of Paladin. I would swap the 10% damage down from Warrior with the 10% STR down from Paladin. put fixed parry rate depending on weapon (0% for sword, 15% for great-sword, 30% for axe) and make parry stat boost parry strength instead (and convert it to block strength for Paladin). and maybe make block work on magical damage.
Maybe also add a magic resistance down debuff to Paladin (like bard song but it should not be able to stack)
Paladin still has low dps, but gets more utility, helping increase healers and magic dps.

10% raw damage reduction is more physical damage mitigated then 10% strength down. This would also make Dark Knight's useless tanks compared to Paladins because they already have very strong physical mitigation and now they are VERY good against it and good against magic as well?

Dark Knight's damage reduction requires tanking. It cannot be done if your not tanking the mob and it relies on parry and RNG. It is also only up 50% of the time. Its pretty much 2.5% damage reduction vs 10%. If it was 20% then it would be as potent as the others but honestly its just not reliable.

Honestly, the "Magic" reduction and the "Physical reduction" tank thing needs to go. All tanks should have high defenses to everything.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

op edit first post remove all mentions of buffing any pld powers and se will take notice and buff drk and war cause se says pld is currently the perfect defensive tank.

SE has said time and time again pld will not be buffed or balanced as its perfectly flawed and will remain this way that's why they made drk the pld replacement btw.