Lets nerf WAR :D

[SpookyGhost]

and that is why pre-2.1 people were using double PLD and double WHM because that rule isn't applied yet that time

Double BRD as well.

However, this argument doesn't hold as much weight as you'd think. There's two criteria for LBs in A4S (at least when WF progression was a thing):

1. LB1 by the 3rd leg
3. LB3 by the 2nd sacrifice in the last phase

I can't find the video atm, but 2x WAR was done not long after the world first happened. DRK + WAR is simply better suited for progression in that fight, however, as DRK's mitigation is S+ for frequent magic damage. Totally doable, though.

e: Oh, yeah, and a lot of people didn't know about the sac strat outside of JP so doing it the intended way makes DRK + WAR even more favorable.

[konpachizaraki]

BG cleared t8 before anyone else using 3 monks?

well the thing is not every raid group are as good as BG
some need LB to finish the content some don't
and please don't compare t8 with alex savage is harder definitely,so making the meter fill slowly by adding 2 people with the same job will affect your chance to clear the content

[RapBreon]

https://youtu.be/39j5v8jlndM?t=134

WAR kills like 8 people....I think the PLD stabbed one dude? He didn't even tank anything, the WAR did! What is even the purpose of this class. Remove it and just replace everything with WARs, clearly much more effective. :3

[Izsha]

Edit: I copied the wrong name and got the wrong stats, so based on your gear I am guessing you have done A2S, but that kind of makes things worse:


If you have done A2S you would know AS I POINTED OUT PAGES AGO that emnity is an extremely minor issue because most of the mobs are instantly stunned by a move called temporary insanity from the gobwalker. So any move that deals zero damage and only generates hate is borderline useless. Ring any bells? (Answer: Flash)

Edit 2: I left in bitchy tome farming related section assuming you werent doing savage, it wasn't relevant so I removed it.
The point was: Let's not balance classes around tome roulette, but you weren't trying to, apologies.

Dare I say you ignored damage because it undermines your entire point? Include every aspect of balance or dont comment at all.
Excluding any point of the class is the obvious way of telling the community you are trying to play the numbers or flat out lie.

I ignore damage because my point still stands even if flash had 150 pot and OP had 0 pot. The game is designed where aoe functions cost a LOT of resource. Every dps aoe costs a lot. Holy costs a lot. Flare costs your entire mp pool. All aoe gcds are over 100tp. This game makes you pay through the nose for aoe anything and that's true for tanks. As tanks must generate threat vs dps they all have ways to regenerate that aoe resource now. Pld has riot for mp aoe. War has equal for tp aoe. Regardless of wars overall 'op status' or whatever you want to call it, they still need a way to manage aoe resources. Don't get so bent outta shape over damage related balance that you try to kill basic tank functions. If OP had 0 pot my point still stands. It stands regardless of dps balance or imbalance. Tanks need a way to regenerate resources to continue to generate threat at all times.

[Jpec07]

Hmm. Well, if I had to, I'd probably nerf outgoing DPS and buff the healing modifier, and give the slashing debuff they bring to the other tanks, as well. So something like a 30% hit to skill potency and a 25% buff to the healing modifiers, so the amount of incoming healing would be about the same, just the damage going out would be lower. Combined with handing the slashing debuff out to other tanks, this could go a long way to making Warriors less essential to raid comp.

[Iagainsti]

Hmm. Well, if I had to, I'd probably nerf outgoing DPS and buff the healing modifier, and give the slashing debuff they bring to the other tanks, as well. So something like a 30% hit to skill potency and a 25% buff to the healing modifiers, so the amount of incoming healing would be about the same, just the damage going out would be lower. Combined with handing the slashing debuff out to other tanks, this could go a long way to making Warriors less essential to raid comp.

#DarkWarriordin

[Jpec07]

#DarkWarriordin

Except not really. There is much more to Warrior's playstyle and flavor that makes them unique without having to have the highest DPS by such a significant margin (10-15%? Okay, fine. 50%? Hell no). Combined with the fact that they are one of the only classes to bring the debuff that mostly only tanks rely on, and you've got a recipe for Warriors being necessary for group comp.

If it helps make you feel better, we can give Warriors the piercing debuff, so Dragoons are also less essential (and so MCH and BRD would rejoice and sing us wonderful songs).

[Tyrial]

Except not really. There is much more to Warrior's playstyle and flavor that makes them unique without having to have the highest DPS by such a significant margin (10-15%? Okay, fine. 50%? Hell no). Combined with the fact that they are one of the only classes to bring the debuff that mostly only tanks rely on, and you've got a recipe for Warriors being necessary for group comp.

If it helps make you feel better, we can give Warriors the piercing debuff, so Dragoons are also less essential (and so MCH and BRD would rejoice and sing us wonderful songs).

A play style that you know so much about at level 28 Marauder, right? Your DPS estimates are off quite a bit as well, if you're getting beat in DPS by a WAR and he's doing 50% more than you then you're doing something wrong.

[kensatsu]

Nerf the war or buff Drk/pld that is the question.
Actualy i think the war look like the finished tank. why Pld don't get only a force debuff and the dark only a intel debuff. why the pld don't have a mechanics to make him more interesting to play : the war have rage stacks, the dark have the dark arts.
Why the pld and dark get more punished than the war to swap stance.
and no war don't have 50% more dps than others tank if it's the case maybe your war is stacked with force and you not.
i think you should ask Buff, not the nerf.

[Giantbane]

I don't see anything interesting or skillful in having an extra button to push.

It's because you need to know when it's safe to DPS. You need to manage threat better without the threat modifier of tank stance. You need to be more thoughtful about how you use your mitigation abilities to push how long you can stay out of tank stance to DPS. And your healer needs to be able to handle the additional damage you'll be taking.

These all combine to be more interesting than just sitting in tank stance.

And as I've repeatedly said, this shit rolls downhill. It won't surprise me to eventually see people in DF runs giving tanks crap for sticking to their tank stances instead of switching like the "pros" do. This is the same playerbase that fostered WARs in 2.0 that would tell me to MT because "lol war cant tank" HM Garuda.

This isn't the same thing exactly. PLD was better at just about everything lvl 50+ in 2.0. At fresh 50, PLD was better at speed runs since they could survive getting beat on by more stuff, and it was easier for them to use the suicide run to skip packs in AK speed runs. PLD was very heavily preferred as OT in Ifrit since it had a better stun for that fight. PLD was vastly better than 2.0 WAR vs. titan (*unless the WAR knew what he was doing and had good gear). Sure some WARs could still do all this, and even match a PLD with gear and/or a really good healer. But this wasn't just perceptions coming out of coil that were effecting WAR. For a lot of lvl 50+ content, PLD just made things easier, and that perception permeated the entire end game until the 2.1 WAR changes.

In a certain sense, this is already happening in 3.0 to a lesser degree. When I decide to DF EX roulette as DPS or heals, I'm always a little disappointed when I get PLD or I get tanks wearing all VIT (i180+ in all VIT). I know the run is going to go slower as a result. I keep it all to myself, but I'm still thinking it.