A Part, and yet Apart

[Februs]

Snip.

1. Again, he could have just tempered them and forced them to kill themselves, or killed them on the spot while they were willingly bowing their heads. It's not like we haven't seen followers of Primals sacrificed to their respective gods in the past. Seems to me this would have been much easier given that the twins would have had absolutely zero defense against it.

You do raise an interesting point that I've wondered about though. Each Primal seems to use their element to Temper. Odin uses his sword (technically, kinda... it's weird) ... what does Bahamut use?

and 2. I've already explained the gap in the story with Iceheart, Louisoix, and the Knights of the Round. I didn't say you need the echo to summon the Primal. They summon the Primals in the same way, lots of Faith and Prayer. You do, however, need the echo to protect yourself against primal influence. It's been stated that this is the only way. The Primals they summoned should have be able to influence them or full possess them, similar to the way Odin possesses his host, or the way Extreme Primals were summoned in the past. It doesn't matter that a real body was the host. If they don't have the echo, they are doomed to be overtaken by the primal. There's lots of in-game evidence for this.

Iceheart is protected by the echo, but Louisoix and the Knights of the Round are not. They should have been susceptible to full possession or tempering (similar to the way Odin takes over his host). This is a gap in the game lore/logic no matter how you slice it.

I also stated that I'd prefer to give the developers the benefit of the doubt, instead of assuming they made mistakes, but to do that it means I have to allow for the possibility that the Echo is not the only way to defend against primal influence. Relying solely on the gospel of "the Echo is the be all end all defense against Primal influence and nothing else matters" only leaves the story open to holes that cannot be explained.