Be The Very Best! Become THE TANK!

[Malevicton]

aggro management is a work for the whole group. If your tank can't keep up your hate generation because you overgear them, you have to slow down dps. If they aren't grossly undergeared compared to you, you can also tell them to get good.

Or just pull it and kill it. Generally there's not a "slow down dps" option for a lot of jobs, especially now with all the timers. Slowing down your dps briefly is gonna affect your dps in the long run. You can dps, you can stop dps, there's not a whole lot of in between.

[Kuwagami]

Or just pull it and kill it. Generally there's not a "slow down dps" option for a lot of jobs, especially now with all the timers. Slowing down your dps briefly is gonna affect your dps in the long run. You can dps, you can stop dps, there's not a whole lot of in between.

OP is talking about dungeons though. There is no timer in a dungeon (unless you really think anyone can hit the 90 minutes timer without wiping endlessly on bosses), thus you can slow down dps. Bards can remove WM (heresy!), DRGs can forget BotD, every dps can forget their CDs in general... There are a lot of easy ways to naturally reduce your dps. If all of that fails, well... /dance ?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Tell your tanks to wear strength gear.

[Gorlioliolio]

I made a new char to play with some RL friends not long ago as a PLD, before 26 it is incredibly difficult to hold agro against high level dps that are synced down, not on aoe packs but on boss mobs.

FOF>lob>fast>savage>fast>savage>repeat those 2 puts you like 5% ahead of agro on a dps who has all their cross class skills for maximum dps at that level, one big crit and it's bouncing back and forth and there is literally nothing you can do. I'm not sure if spamming flash until out of mp would be more agro at that level at the beginning of a boss fight because it seemed like too stupid of a practice to try but it is more than enough for trash packs against the same dps.

Maybe low level PLD (GLD I guess at that level) should be forced to cross class raging/IR at that level just to keep up but that also seems like bad practice since you won't have those to rely on later, though it would only require like 20 minutes on both archer and pug to get.

[Malevicton]

snip

you can, but why? The mobs aren't gonna kill you, even if you get no heals. So you're stopping dps for what? So the tank doesn't feel hurt over an imagined insult to their pride? Slowing dps isn't the worst thing in the world (though a bit painful if you actually give a shit about your performance), but there's no benefit to it either.

Just pull hate and kill it. It's not an insult to the tank unless you start flipping out about it in chat. I expect to pull a few times if I'm overgeared compared to the tank. I don't think less of the tank when it happens, it's just math.

[ArdorGrey]

I will say it seems like some things are being overlooked here. going full ham on the first thing the tank tags as soon as they tag it isn't good dps practice, especially if for whatever reason both dps go full ham on 2 separate targets. Front loading multiple dots makes for faster overall encounters AND gives tanks time to build enough of a aggro buffer that everyone can start doing their own thing on whatever targets they wish a few gcds later. and yet so many dps will just autopilot their full st opener on the first thing they see. *including* putting dots on something that's obviously going to go down in 10 seconds rather than tag the dots on a different target. This is a threefold waste of dps: you force tanks to spam aggro combos instead of cutting loose with their own dps options, you aren't dealing dot damage on additional targets, and you're deliberately aborting your own dots.

and then these people think they're a good dps because strictly speaking they used the highest burst aggro opener, not even what's actually the highest damaging opener for the situation they're in. under the impression that they must be good because they stole aggro these poor rotations(which are, admittedly good on bosses that won't die in the next 15 seconds) become ingrained habits.

That said: tanks shouldn't be consistently losing aggro, especially if people are using aoe rotations.

[BlurtedNonsense]

As for low level tanks having aggro issues against higher level DPS, all the tank has to do is prioritize enmity generation over their own DPS to make up for the level and gear disparity should they have trouble. That's all there is to it.

This Sums up as the answer for this whole thread. I didn't level my GLD/PLD till after 3.0 and I noticed some early hate issues. But when I focused on building up hate as a number one priority there was no issues except for impatient BRD's who attack before I even get close with any of my skills. To that I say, "if you want it so bad you tank it" due to it being nearly impossible to pull the mob off at low levels. After 3.0 I been noticing a lot of newer players not understanding simple concepts of the game. So mainly having the patience and educating them is the only way we'll be able to combat this problem.

With a good tank, you can attack as soon as he tags it for the most part. Just make sure you stay with the targets your tank is on. That has remedied most issues some people have. Most tanks I been with get hate with AoE fights then tend to get focused on one target at a time losing hate on targets it's not attacking. At level 60 I rarely got hate, besides I'm a Nin I can just redirect hate if I need to.

[RiisWolf]

Funny enough, geared dps tend to actually be better tanks! I speak from the healer perspective.

With how primitive the tanking system is in this game, it's no real surprise.

Damage to threat; damage to win.

Weak Threat Multipliers + Defenses with weak effectiveness = low incoming damage from enemies = DPS don't cough up their hearts when they get punched.

As for low level tanks having aggro issues against higher level DPS, all the tank has to do is prioritize enmity generation over their own DPS to make up for the level and gear disparity should they have trouble. That's all there is to it.

I know what you mean but huge problem here. VIT doesn't give threat. STR does. Guess what most tanks lack.

[Seku]

I know what you mean but huge problem here. VIT doesn't give threat. STR does. Guess what most tanks lack.

Think he's referring to their rotations, not stats. And most DF tanks lack common knowledge of tanking in general. Even had some PLD's that thought they could build hate up on 3+ mobs using RoH alone.

[SlyRoyale]

I know what you mean but huge problem here. VIT doesn't give threat. STR does. Guess what most tanks lack.

Even with lower stats, a tank can still hold aggro even though it would be more challenging. With the buffs SE gave tanks regarding enmity generation, some players take it for granted instead of capitalizing on it, which can lead to DPS or healers becoming tanks due to the tank's neglect of prioritizing enmity. The greater the gear and level difference between the tank and the rest of the party, along with skill level, the more a tank has to focus on generating aggro. Aggro issues are more than just a difference between gear and level.