Can you Devs please pay close attention to pvp dps

[Dimitrii]

I think melee dps is the one that need nerf because you can not use any cc against them in that 12 sec fetter ward. If you use aetherial manipulation they can use gap closer. Melee dps can sprint with enliven/invigorate/tp pot like anytime and at same time remove sprint from opponent with short 60 sec cooldown. Pretty much everything you do, melee can counter it and you have no way escape. Warrior can be stopped easily with sleep, stun, heavy bind and they have no gap closer.

Yes, nerf the only abilities standing in the way of casters/ranged being able to completely kite and kill every melee they may come across lol.

[Sunako]

Yes, nerf the only abilities standing in the way of casters/ranged being able to completely kite and kill every melee they may come across lol.

But warrior have same problems right? How warriors are that op if they can not even attack their opponents?

[RiceisNice]

But warrior have same problems right? How warriors are that op if they can not even attack their opponents?

Warriors are durable that they aren't, in a sense, sticking their hand in the blender like a typical melee would. Burst damage is also incredibly powerful in something as fast paced and chaotic as seal rock, and theirs are arguably the most reliable among the melee on a shorter effective cooldown (similiar to why SMNs are also among the strongest of the dps classes) They also have a CC that isn't broken by damage and lasts for 6 seconds, that guarantees a kill on any retreating team in most circumstances. All of this and they have some fairly strong utilities too from their PvP skills.

[Sunako]

They also have a CC that isn't broken by damage and lasts for 6 seconds, that guarantees a kill on any retreating team in most circumstances.

Ya warrior opponent can not move, but they can still do their abilities. Somebody can stun that warr or sleep while you are doing your "combo". But what you can do against melee dps that have fetter ward? Nothing. If they do limit break with fetter ward, you can not stop it. If range dps cast limit break you can stun it and they waste their bar. You can dps 12 second with melee and opponent can not stop you if they can not kill you.

[Dimitrii]

But warrior have same problems right? How warriors are that op if they can not even attack their opponents?

Warriors are arguably more deadly close range than melee. They have high hp, defensive abilities that restore hp or mitigate dmg, an ability that increases the dmg dealt on a target, another two abilities that deals dmg everytime they suffer dmg and one of the strongest if not the strongest burst in PVP. They are OP in a one on one setting but that isn't a big deal in a team setting anyway. Should you find yourself alone with a warrior, most jobs can easily run away from them and do, as they have crap mobility and cant really stop you aside from holmgang which if you purify/elusive jump/esuna/whatever off guarantees you get away as the war sits there looking stupid.

By comparison melee are much more mobile than warriors and can cut off escapes much easier, but they are much much more squishier so if you are able to somehow create any distance between you and them as a caster/ranged you can handle them easier than you could a war. As a ranged/caster you will always be at a disadvantage against a tank/melee close ranged anyway that's part of the job description. Tanks are pretty much melees with the exception that they trade mobility for defensive capabilities. If you take away the melee's tools in being able to close in on their targets to inflict dmg than what are they supposed to do in skirmishes? Sit there taking all the ranged dmg defenseless without the benefit of the defensive cooldowns tanks have?

[Sunako]

If you take away the melee's tools in being able to close in on their targets to inflict dmg than what are they supposed to do in skirmishes? Sit there taking all the ranged dmg defenseless without the benefit of the defensive cooldowns tanks have?

This is exactly same if you remove damage from summoners and warriors they would be useless. Or if you remove cc from blm or if you remove direct damage interrupts and burst from mch and brd.

[Dimitrii]

This is exactly same if you remove damage from summoners and warriors they would be useless. Or if you remove cc from blm or if you remove direct damage interrupts and burst from mch and brd.

I dont understand your point. You are saying melee does too much damage so make it so that they cannot attack you? Fetter ward lasts 12 seconds, it doesnt make you invincible like hallowed ground, you can still die. Melee do not possess cc abilities like casters/ranged classes (with the exception of ninja who pay for that ability by being denied fetter ward access). They cannot harm anyone from a distance save for drg piercing talon and nin throwing stars, both of which do crap dmg and are extremely inefficient to spam tp wise, (monk doesnt even get a ranged attack at all) and their gap closers.

I dont even get your examples anyway its like you are arguing my point for me. Yes there is a parallel. Just as casters/ranged are given tools to help them maintain their distance from their enemy and deal damage from afar in the form of their cc abilities so too do the melee get abilities to close in on their enemies so that they can do damage in melee range themselves. Are you saying that you would rather just eliminate all forms of CC from PVP altogether or something?

And regarding smn no one is saying they shouldnt be able to do any dmg. Warrior does more dmg than a smn but you know what keeps them in check? They have to be within melee range in order to do it. Summoner is still the only job in the game that can perform max bursts ON THE RUN. I myself dont really have that much of a problem with it because they are useless for 60 seconds afterwards anyway but that is what people are complaining about not the potency of your burst. The potency of your burst isnt anything special its the ability of being the only job that can perform it while moving and at a distance. Please stop bringing up the potency of the smn burst, its nothing special in itself, only the conditions under which it can be performed is.

[Sunako]

I dont understand your point.

My point is. There is 20 page of arguing that same X job is op because of Z reason. Because one job is good for Z reason that does not mean they are op. If some job lack Z utility it is compensated with Y or O utility. If somebody have Z utility better than anybody else it is compensated by bit lacking Y utility. If you look only one side from X job utility ofc they are op because you compare Z utility 2gether against jobs that have more Y or O utility.

[ScarletCrusader]

My point is. There is 20 page of arguing that same X job is op because of Z reason. Because one job is good for Z reason that does not mean they are op. If some job lack Z utility it is compensated with Y or O utility. If somebody have Z utility better than anybody else it is compensated by bit lacking Y utility. If you look only one side from X job utility ofc they are op because you compare Z utility 2gether against jobs that have more Y or O utility.

Yes that is a good point. I think PvP is in a good place right now, SMN is slightly stronger than others, but it isn't that big of a deal. Except for AST. I can't see an argument to defend AST after their buffs, I think they are really strong right now compared to the other two healer classes.

[RiceisNice]

...

What? X having Z for the most part has a larger impact on the outcome of seal rock than Y or O will ever be. And this isn't even the argument you're trying to make. You're getting rid of Y and O and trying to compare that with getting rid of Z from X (which honestly, they're both are going to be useless if they can't provide anything to the table)

My perspective is that X class is best at Z, nor do they necessarily fall short in doing Y or O. Other classes on the other hand, cannot do Z as well as X, but are good at X or O. But again, Z is one of hte major factors that have an impact on the objective-based concept of seal rock.

Well astro have its own weakness. With nocturnal your aoe healing is not really that good as whm/diurnal astro if you spam regen all of your team mates. And they can not get so fast hp up with spamming Aspected Benefic. SCH can have highest burst healing ability because they can spam 6x lustrate(9x with dis..) if those stacks are not removed by monks/paladins/summoners/astro etc. Whm cc utility is way more better than other two healers(stone1, repose, fluid aura, swiftcast holy sometimes), sch can apply 20% healing reduction against opponents with miasma and reduce opponent healing with virus etc, astro can increase other pt member dps with their cards and they have stella and aoe stun. Have never played against astro in wolves den, but i think all healers are nearly balanced and all work good depends on composition. Maybe scholar lack bit compared other healers because stacks can be removed, but not really that much. Most of time once you try remove their stacks you remove proctect then need wait 3min until you can try again in case you are not monk.

To be honest, AoE damage isn't that plentiful either that you don't need AoE healing. Nocturnal AoE healing isn't any better than SCH, if not their asp. heilos is actually stronger than succor when you factor in the potency boost. And even then, they have access to hellos which is the same potency as medica, more if you factor in the potency bonus. I'm not sure why you're even considering regen (or diurnal even) because it takes forever to tic, nor do they stack in PvP to heal up more than a weaponskill at a time, espesically wen you're trying to save someone (or yourself) that's getting focused down. I don't think you actually understand why ASTs are op way they currently are because even if half the things you mentioned are true, it is far far outweighted by what AST can actually do.