How likely is Alex savage to be nerfed.

[zosia]

But if they give upgrade items to make Esoterics go to 210 without having to do SAVAGE then savage is no longer part of the gear progression...right. They only nerfed Coil because it was gating story...with Alex the normal and savage have the same story so nothing is gated or missed here. They would look really bad if they nerf this content for other players when there is not need to do so. Just for the record I am someone who is probably never going to clear savage so don't think I am saying this because am in the top 1% of raiders that is not the case at all...just my outlook on how they will logically proceed with their content.

Do you really think they are going to put upgrade items in void ark when less than 3.5k people world wide have just started to get the twine? When they added upgrade items to WoD, they did it in steps based off of upgrade progression from Coils.


They don't want to give easy access to upgrade items while raiders barely have any yet from raids. At best, you would only see the gobcoat added to void ark for at least the 1st month or two, just like we saw with WoD.


Also, as it pertains to nerfs, midcore raid statics are more the norm than the exception, what are they supposed to do? Bang their heads against a3s until the next raid tier comes out?

[Ultimatecalibur]

Do you really think they are going to put upgrade items in void ark when less than 3.5k people world wide have just started to get the twine? When they added upgrade items to WoD, they did it in steps based off of upgrade progression from Coils.

Yes, I do expect they will add them to a weekly Void Ark completion quest.

Also, I suspect that the delay in the weekly quest giving out Encrypted Tomestones until 2.55 had more to do with maintaining Relic viability rather than anything to do with FCoB since Carboncoat and Carbontwine were available through hunts at the very start of 2.5.

When Syrcus Tower was released in 2.3, it was quickly determined that running the Tower for an Unidentified Tomestone and then doing hunts for the Sand was a much easier and less of a hassle for a similar reward than working a relic up to i110. This caused a steep drop in the number of players working on relics. To avoid a repeat of that they delayed easy access to Encrypted Tomestones until the Relic was superior.

[zosia]

Yes, I do expect they will add them to a weekly Void Ark completion quest.

Also, I suspect that the delay in the weekly quest giving out Encrypted Tomestones until 2.55 had more to do with maintaining Relic viability rather than anything to do with FCoB since Carboncoat and Carbontwine were available through hunts at the very start of 2.5.

When Syrcus Tower was released in 2.3, it was quickly determined that running the Tower for an Unidentified Tomestone and then doing hunts for the Sand was a much easier and less of a hassle for a similar reward than working a relic up to i110. This caused a steep drop in the number of players working on relics. To avoid a repeat of that they delayed easy access to Encrypted Tomestones until the Relic was superior.

The old argument then was that raiders already had access to the gear and that CT was the "catch-up" patch. When 3.1 drops, there is going to be no catch up needed since alex savage will still be current content. I don't see hundreds and hundreds of statics getting clears by mid october, why would Yoshida choose to destroy those people's progression by showering everyone with 210 gear?

I think you are hoping for way too much if you want twines before most raiders can get them.

[Nadirah]

The old argument then was that raiders already had access to the gear and that CT was the "catch-up" patch. When 3.1 drops, there is going to be no catch up needed since alex savage will still be current content. I don't see hundreds and hundreds of statics getting clears by mid october, why would Yoshida choose to destroy those people's progression by showering everyone with 210 gear?

I think you are hoping for way too much if you want twines before most raiders can get them.

I think most raiders will be getting their twines out of Void Ark.

I also honestly believe that Savage was a "fine, you want to bitch the content isn't hard enough, here, have at this you whining little snots" thing.

This isn't a hardcore raid game. The difficulty of Savage coupled with the 'git gud' permeating attitude just tells me they threw it out there knowing it was too hard to shut the whiners up.

[zosia]

I think most raiders will be getting their twines out of Void Ark.

I also honestly believe that Savage was a "fine, you want to bitch the content isn't hard enough, here, have at this you whining little snots" thing.

This isn't a hardcore raid game. The difficulty of Savage coupled with the 'git gud' permeating attitude just tells me they threw it out there knowing it was too hard to shut the whiners up.

I don't see why SE would do this. Mid-core raid statics comprise the majority of raiders in this game, just as in any game. If I had to make a guess, only about 20% or so of the FCoB raid talent will get a4s clears before any big nerfs. SE would let down 80% of their raiding population to shut up the bleeding edge elite seems like a poor strategy to retain it's midcore player base.

It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I think it was just an oversight on SE part. They underestimated the demand by the community for more mid-core raid content. SE needs soooo much more content around the difficulty of Ex primals. Content that is difficult, but pug-able. Content that is challenging and compelling, but you can still do it despite the time of day or if you have a static or not.

[Nadirah]

I don't see why SE would do this. Mid-core raid statics comprise the majority of raiders in this game, just as in any game. If I had to make a guess, only about 20% or so of the FCoB raid talent will get a4s clears before any big nerfs. SE would let down 80% of their raiding population to shut up the bleeding edge elite seems like a poor strategy to retain it's midcore player base.

It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I think it was just an oversight on SE part. They underestimated the demand by the community for more mid-core raid content. SE needs soooo much more content around the difficulty of Ex primals. Content that is difficult, but pug-able. Content that is challenging and compelling, but you can still do it despite the time of day or if you have a static or not.

There is no point to having "midcore" raid statics now.

Either you're banging your head up on Savage, or you LolDutyFinder Normal in about an hour and be done for the week.

*That* is the biggest problem I have with the game right now as a side note.

[Colorful]

The old argument then was that raiders already had access to the gear and that CT was the "catch-up" patch. When 3.1 drops, there is going to be no catch up needed since alex savage will still be current content. I don't see hundreds and hundreds of statics getting clears by mid october, why would Yoshida choose to destroy those people's progression by showering everyone with 210 gear?

I think you are hoping for way too much if you want twines before most raiders can get them.

How is that destroying their progression? By mid-october most players will have a fair amount of Eso gear, if raiders still aren't able to complete the floor they're on (or hit a wall as some might say) the 210 gear will help them break down that wall and progress further.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The old argument then was that raiders already had access to the gear and that CT was the "catch-up" patch. When 3.1 drops, there is going to be no catch up needed since alex savage will still be current content. I don't see hundreds and hundreds of statics getting clears by mid october, why would Yoshida choose to destroy those people's progression by showering everyone with 210 gear?

I think you are hoping for way too much if you want twines before most raiders can get them.

I'm actually making my guess based off how they have previously done the upgrade system since 2.2/2.3.

In 2.2 both SCoB and a new level on tomestone gear (Soldiery/Gerolt's Masterworks) were added which could be upgraded with the Sands of Time/Oil of Time tokens. During 2.2 the only source of the upgrade tokens and the token needed to purchase the weathered weapons was SCoB. During 2.2 the max ilevel you could reach was i100 unless you did SCoB which would allow you to get to i110. In 2.3, Syrcus Tower and "The Hunt" were added, both of which you could get Sands of Time and Oils of Time, in addition to SCoB which was still the top level content.

In 2.4/2.5 this was (mostly) repeated for the Ironworks Gear: 2.4 FCoB was the only source of the tokens, 2.5 they where rewards from hunts and doing CT/WoD (no longer a straight drop, now a weekly quest reward for doing all 3 24 man raids).

You also seem to misunderstand what people mean by the term "catch up patch." Due to the fact that BCoB and CT were released in reverse of how they were initially planned to (CT was intended to be in 2.0 and BCoB was to be in 2.1, but something caused CT to be delayed making them release BCoB early) the devs decided to roll with it and started doing 2 patch +20 ilevel cycles instead of each patch increasing ilevel by roughly 10. In this new 2 patch cycle system, even numbered patches (2.2/2.4) increase the max ilevel by 20 but only the hardcore raiders could reach that number, everyone else was limited to an increase of only 10 ilevels. Odd numbered patches allowed the general population to "catch up" to the raiders and be on an even footing when the next patch cycle started.

In 3.0, the raiding max is i210 and the general population max ilevel is i200. In 3.1, the raiding max will stay i210 and the general population max will increase to i210. They are doing this so that they can plan 3.2 content for an ilevel of 210 instead of having a 10 ilevel gap between raiders and the general population.

[zosia]

I'm actually making my guess based off how they have previously done the upgrade system since 2.2/2.3.

In 2.2 both SCoB and a new level on tomestone gear (Soldiery/Gerolt's Masterworks) were added which could be upgraded with the Sands of Time/Oil of Time tokens. During 2.2 the only source of the upgrade tokens and the token needed to purchase the weathered weapons was SCoB. During 2.2 the max ilevel you could reach was i100 unless you did SCoB which would allow you to get to i110. In 2.3, Syrcus Tower and "The Hunt" were added, both of which you could get Sands of Time and Oils of Time, in addition to SCoB which was still the top level content.

In 2.4/2.5 this was (mostly) repeated for the Ironworks Gear: 2.4 FCoB was the only source of the tokens, 2.5 they where rewards from hunts and doing CT/WoD (no longer a straight drop, now a weekly quest reward for doing all 3 24 man raids).

You also seem to misunderstand what people mean by the term "catch up patch." Due to the fact that BCoB and CT were released in reverse of how they were initially planned to (CT was intended to be in 2.0 and BCoB was to be in 2.1, but something caused CT to be delayed making them release BCoB early) the devs decided to roll with it and started doing 2 patch +20 ilevel cycles instead of each patch increasing ilevel by roughly 10. In this new 2 patch cycle system, even numbered patches (2.2/2.4) increase the max ilevel by 20 but only the hardcore raiders could reach that number, everyone else was limited to an increase of only 10 ilevels. Odd numbered patches allowed the general population to "catch up" to the raiders and be on an even footing when the next patch cycle started.

In 3.0, the raiding max is i210 and the general population max ilevel is i200. In 3.1, the raiding max will stay i210 and the general population max will increase to i210. They are doing this so that they can plan 3.2 content for an ilevel of 210 instead of having a 10 ilevel gap between raiders and the general population.

Why would they bring the general population to ilvl210 when a fraction, less than 1%, of the player base will be ilvl210 by the time they release 3.1? Raiders who worked very hard to even get 206, 207, or 208 won't even get the time to appreciate 209 or 210 before its the status quo. You don't see an intrinsic problem with that? It was fine in ARR, raiders would be decked out in raid gear and upgraded items when the catch up patch dropped. In this case, people will be lucky to get a full savage clear before 3.1.

It would not kill the general population to wait one more month after 3.1 for Void ark to get the upgrade items. There is literally zero reasons a player needs to be ilvl210 now or after 3.1, including raiders.

[KarstenS]

Why would they bring the general population to ilvl210

Because, they have done it before and will continue their way.

At release, the tome gear was out of the box max iLvl. The need for upgrading gear got introduced with SCoB first.