What if Tank classes could only meatshield?

[Voldemort]

You still get your feeling of 'reward' from doing damage, but the design would shift to you completely catering to your party members and boil down to you hoping that they can beat down that pinata before you get tired.

(Once again; design only effective in Raid/Dungeon content where players are more or less forced to rely on other people)

A problem now arises with the other classes of the trinity, and no longer a problem with Tanks.

See, according to the original proposition you mentioned, all damage to a boss or mob would be completely dependent upon the DPS. In which case two perfect tanks, two perfect healers, and three perfect DPS-es would be undone by one suboptimal DPS (because the damage required by 4 DPS may not be enough with 3 good/1bad DPS)

The fact that the tanks and healers can bring something to the table allows for flexibility in a party to have subpar members.
If a healer is terrific at their job, they dont have to sit there casting cure over and over..... which is what I see all too often in dungeons. Rather, the healer can help out a DPS who decides to get face-lasered by the boss, or attacking adds that spawn in a fight.
If a tank is terrific at their job (which is not hard at all in the least. A tank who strictly only uses the butcher's block combo should never, under any circumstances, ever lose hate), they should be able to do something else other than tank. Which includes using their own buffs to help the healer, or putting in their DPS to help the party overall.


If Im doing Bismarck EX, and the party is standing on its back shaking violently about to be thrown off, I as a tank would want to be able to use Fell Cleave in a pinch to push in that last bit of DPS to win.
Not solely rely on my four DPS, hoping they mastered their rotations.

All the people you see tanking in Deliverance stance are the ones who have mastered their job. They have learned how to push their job to the limit by keeping hate and contributing to the overall party DPS.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

I would have quit playing from boredom long ago

[Shyle]

Know what would happen? A mass exodus of tanks in the game. They'd all roll DPS or possibly healer, or just straight up quit the game. In my opinion, the reason why we see tank dmg (DRK and War in particular) increasing is the same reason why Tank damage increased in WoW (a prime inspiration for FFXIV) and other MMO's, Doing damage is "fun". Granted, it's not the main job of the tank to focus "solely" on damage, but knowing you're contributing actual damage while being a tank makes the role more fun more *most* players (there are those weirdos (j/k) that don't care about dmg). I think people are still stuck in the early to mid 2000's when tanks were low damage meatshields. Times have changed since 2004/2005, tank classes were always hard to fill in groups, increasing dps/dmg helped alleviate that.

Now, as for the str v vit thing. Until SE gives encounters that actually *REQUIRE* full vit, you're going to see more str based tanks. It's quite possible that this is the design all along (with vit stacking for the "progression" encounters like savage).

[Yorumi]

Know what would happen? A mass exodus of tanks in the game. They'd all roll DPS or possibly healer, or just straight up quit the game. In my opinion, the reason why we see tank dmg (DRK and War in particular) increasing is the same reason why Tank damage increased in WoW (a prime inspiration for FFXIV) and other MMO's, Doing damage is "fun". Granted, it's not the main job of the tank to focus "solely" on damage, but knowing you're contributing actual damage while being a tank makes the role more fun more *most* players (there are those weirdos (j/k) that don't care about dmg). I think people are still stuck in the early to mid 2000's when tanks were low damage meatshields. Times have changed since 2004/2005, tank classes were always hard to fill in groups, increasing dps/dmg helped alleviate that.

I have to say I find it interesting that "tanks" would rather have a boring rotation but see damage numbers, over an interesting rotation based on keeping mitigation up and fights that are designed to challenge a tank's skill in reducing damage. Btw if anyone is stuck in the early 2000's it's the "I only want to be a dps" tank players. In EQ the way warriors held hate just damage and weapon procs. I suppose it's also funny that the main reason I quit tanking in this game is because it's so boring and you're not actually tanking. The dps in this game at least slightly more interesting rotations and if you're going to just be another dps, might as well be the best at it.

[Sleigh]

There'd have to be another angle to it. It could not be pure aggro, as pretty much everyone else has mentioned that'd be extremely boring even if it was harder to do somehow, because the game wouldn't reward you as it does a good tank now (faster fight clears/DPS checks met easier/allowing you to meet enrages undergeared). There'd have to be some survival edge to even consider something like that, something like all your aggro has permanent Bloodbath attached to it, or your debuffs on the enemy are based on stats or something ... I don't know, hard to see how it would work, or why a dev would even go that route when everyone's DPS crazy these days.

It'd also complicate solo play tremendously.

[Wizhard]

I did a lot of PLD raiding during the SCoB days, and I personally always loved to get big numbers while tanking. Did a lot of SwO tanking with hybrid jewelry. Since i90 pentamelded ruby set I haven't touched any full VIT build at all. If I can't afford pentamelds (like now for instance) I run with 3 STR and 2 VIT. Even now when I play my PLD I have the same STR/hybrid jewelry as on my DRK and WAR and I love switching to SwO after establishing agro just to get some nice Royal Authority crits and outparse bad duty finder DPS. It's not because YOU, as a super carrier Paladin, do not want to see big numbers, that every PLD has the same philosophy. For me it's the same with all 3 tanks. I love pushing my jobs to the limits. Love doing that as SCH too btw, which is not a DPS job either.

Now in all honesty. Even as a tank, isn't it pleasing to see some high hardcore crits ? Don't you love doing over 3k damage with a Royal Authority ? Even if it's not your primary purpose, even if it's not your primary role, don't lie to me. It's always pleasing to see big numbers. And it's a lot of fun to maximize DPS while tanking perfectly. Much funnier than just focusing on pure tanking (which is the easiest thing to do in FFXIV). I find it even more satisfying and gratifying to have a high DPS as a tank than as a DPS. It's much more satisfying to be over 1000 DPS as a DRK than over 1400 as a MNK. Maybe you're too afraid to push your job to the limits ?

My group was pushing 3 bennus long before echo was a thing, with me staying in sword oath 100%. I did not exactly enjoy it, but i did it because pushing 3 bennus was making the fight easier.
Right now i am progressing through A4S and i HATE the tank meta atm. i do not *gasp* find big dps on a tank fun. What i find fun on a tank is mitigatigating more and more but sadly this games design is going away from turtle tanks and we now have 2 dps with mitigation cooldowns and a paladin thats neither here nor there.

[Shyle]

snip.

Rotating CD's and mitigation skills are definitely still in the game. I know stance dancing makes things interesting and challenging, when to use the CD"s at the right time, etc. The rotation for warrior at least is more engaging than the DPS roles I've played to 60 so far since I have to not only do damage rotations, but use mitigation CD's and Self heals at the right moment, all while stance dancing (or at least as close as I can get to Stance dancing). Now, I can't say it's the same for Plds or even DRK, but warriors can have pretty interesting gameplay challenges.

[Duelle]

The rotation for warrior at least is more engaging than the DPS roles I've played to 60 so far since I have to not only do damage rotations, but use mitigation CD's and Self heals at the right moment, all while stance dancing (or at least as close as I can get to Stance dancing). Now, I can't say it's the same for Plds or even DRK, but warriors can have pretty interesting gameplay challenges.

You really should use more objective words to describe WAR gameplay. You call it interesting, I call it "too many buttons to push". Partly why I'm not fond of how WAR plays and prefer PLD. *shrug*

Though if you want to look at it a certain way, the reason WAR's gameplay feels more enganging to you is most likely because keeping Storm's Path up along with Maim and managing Wrath stacks feels more direct (in terms of benefits and what it does for you as a whole) and not "complex for the sake of complexity", which is something you see in DPS jobs at 60. Also helps that you don't have positional requirements to worry about.

[Yorumi]

Rotating CD's and mitigation skills are definitely still in the game. I know stance dancing makes things interesting and challenging, when to use the CD"s at the right time, etc. The rotation for warrior at least is more engaging than the DPS roles I've played to 60 so far since I have to not only do damage rotations, but use mitigation CD's and Self heals at the right moment, all while stance dancing (or at least as close as I can get to Stance dancing). Now, I can't say it's the same for Plds or even DRK, but warriors can have pretty interesting gameplay challenges.

And I made my comments from playing the tanks. War rotates through 3 combos without thought and hits typically the same skill every time they get 5 stacks. You don't have to manage stacks, consider the timing of a recast, adjust the rotation based on procs or the availability of certain resources or even really care about what damage type is incoming. Granted no class is particularly interesting and engaging but tanks really don't have much to think about. Heck most of the time the tank doesn't even need to be concerned with the fight mechanics, they just sit there beating on it. I think it's most indicative of a design flaw that so many are saying they don't care one bit about tanking and just want to dps on their tank.