"Base/Simple" stigma of Paladin and how we must deal with it/prepare for the future.

[Ashkendor]

My mistake then if I read around your post, it seemed to me like you were pretty clear about the fact that enmity reduction abilities were meant to never ever be used. Have you ever seen a Black Mage proc 5 thunders in the first 20 seconds of a fight? I have.

Usually it's accompanied by a gleeful giggle in Mumble and "Look, I'm Ramuh!" from my static's BLM.

[SeraviEdalborez]

My mistake then if I read around your post, it seemed to me like you were pretty clear about the fact that enmity reduction abilities were meant to never ever be used. Have you ever seen a Black Mage proc 5 thunders in the first 20 seconds of a fight? I have.

Hyperbole is a hell of a thing. I too like latching onto one word to prove my words have weight.

[Seshayn]

Usually it's accompanied by a gleeful giggle in Mumble and "Look, I'm Ramuh!" from my static's BLM.

Wow... that... is just so damn accurate... Well played.

Hyperbole is a hell of a thing. I too like latching onto one word to prove my words have weight.

Sorry, due to lack of sleep I'm gonna need you to be a bit less subtle with whatever point underlining never ever was supposed to convey.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Sorry, due to lack of sleep I'm gonna need you to be a bit less subtle with whatever point underlining never ever was supposed to convey.

I thought you would be comfortable with the concept of putting words in someone else's mouth.

Guy never said "never use Quelling". You seem to have heard it that way anyways though.

[Seshayn]

If you can't hold aggro off of your DPS, that is entirely your fault.
Even if it's a SMN/BLM, if you aren't holding aggro off of them NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE DOING you are failing to complete the most basic part of your job.
Hell, you should be glad that they can push enough DPS to out-hate you.

I thought you would be comfortable with the concept of putting words in someone else's mouth.

Guy never said "never use Quelling". You seem to have heard it that way anyways though.

Oh, I'm sorry, you see I saw the "NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE DOING" thing he said, you see there? in all caps? For what I can only assume was emphasis? And well, to me, when coupled with the part about not holding aggro... well, I thought it would be reasonable to put 2 and 2 together... I mean, since the equation was there, I finished it. Was... was that rude? Sorry, I sort of lose my manners sometimes haha. Please forgive my obviously mistaken conclusions I drew. Boy is my face red.

I just assumed since his post came right after the one where we talked about enmity reduction abilities.... and he specifically mentioned BLM/SMN whose enmity reduction ability is quelling... Golly gee willikers this is some long and drawn out sarcasm isn't it?

Here's how it looks to me.

That guy was like "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck"
And then I yell out "It's a Duck!"
And then you chime in with "Hey he never said that!!! Don't put words in his mouth!"

Seravie pls. (that's a dolan joke, since I used ducks in that really weird analogy.)

I'm gonna edit this again to give you a words of the day. Your words of the day is: Context Clues

Another edit to let you know I am probably sorry for being such an asshole, it's just so hilarious and fun when I haven't slept in 30 hours, and if I remember it tomorrow I will probably feel bad about it briefly and then drown my sorrows in some type of delicious muffin or other breakfast-like treat to compensate.

[Misha_Tameshigiri]

Obviously you should encourage DPS players you know personally to use quelling strikes during burst phases/openers.
I apologize for being misleading.
Carry on, good sir.

[Seshayn]

Obviously you should encourage DPS players you know personally to use quelling strikes during burst phases/openers.
I apologize for being misleading.
Carry on, good sir.

And I'm sorry for being such an inconsiderate dick! I should sleep! I'm gonna go sleep!

[Brian_]

The problem is not PLD's design, but the fact the devs allowed the tank meta to focus on DPS. That in itself is the result of not designing tanks to keep them tanking in their tank stance (since a good part of the DPS issue wouldn't exist if they had; all it would mean is that raids would have had to spend an extra week or two or esoterics to gear their DPS appropriately to meet the checks in Alexander).

The desire for "simple" comes from the fact half the people on these forums want PLD turned into a WAR or DRK facsimile for the sake of increasing its DPS.

No, it is not only the meta, the "systems" surrounding tanking mechanics and raid design. It is ALSO the FACT that PLD has some unaddressed design oversights in their kit.

This is the same as saying "oh, DRK design is fine because the tanking meta makes them good." No, DRK also has some glaring design issues. It's just that their issues aren't large enough to really impact their place within the meta.

People continue to post in complete ignorance. Look at the facts.

Rage of Halone's potency and enmity are what they are because PLDs only had Rage of Halone in 2.X. If they didn't lower the enmity, you would have some serious enmity juggling issues in multiple tank situations. Anyone that played PLD in 2.X at any reasonable level knows about this problem. But, that was 2.X. With the release of 3.X and the introduction of 2 new PLD combos, there is no reason to not adjust RoH outside of concerns about PLD performance in leveling / synced content.

The same goes for Shield Swipe. It is still balanced based on 2.X. Based on the average potency of PLD combos in 2.X, Shield Swipe was a very slight DPS gain at a lower TP cost. Based on the average potency of PLD combos in 3.X, Shield Swipe is a DPS loss. They didn't adjust Shield Swipe's potency for 3.X appropriately.

A lot of the other issues are carry overs from 2.X that have always been problems. PLDs just kind of took them in stride because they were still fine for raid content. Now, the problems have mounted to this tipping point. So, it's not only an issue of the meta. It's not good that so many PLD abilities are under performing or unusable based on clear design/balance failures.

[Synestra]

+1

Good post showing some flaws on the PLD job, one thing i want to see is oGCD stances that doesnt brake comboes to make gameplay more fluid. Add 5-10s CD on it and slightly increase mana cost so that should keep it in balance.

Shield Swipe has so much potential to be a good skill, either make it oGCD skill or keep it on GCD but remove TP cost so it becomes our proper "TP restore skill" ooooor make it cone AoE similiar to OP so PLD's gets some AoE dmg boost.

DV is clunky due heal proc(does any other job has a skill that depends on another player to actually make your skill work? aetherial manipulation is propably onlyone i can think of besides DV)and it has rather long CD for being a sacred soil v2, Clemency needs its cast-time reduced heavily or make it instat cast with short/medium CD(30-60s)and keep its current mana cost if needed.

Also i agree with DRK, it needs some love too.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I just wanted to sign back in and let you guys know that I see people (for the most part) having sensible, level-headed and respectful discussions on multiple issues that can be seen. I also see how, again, most of you are forgiving and understanding when it concerns these arguments and the effects real life might be having on you at the time of making your posts.

This truly means so much to me. I registered my account with the thought of being mocked and outright scorned for saying things (about anything really,) hanging in the back of my head. I see all these horror story posts about people being malicious and uncaring and it worried me. I'm not moved to the point of tears, but it does make my heart hurt in the best way possible to see maturity and calmness getting more and more prevalent.

Thank you so very much.