"Base/Simple" stigma of Paladin and how we must deal with it/prepare for the future.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Let's play a game where you answer a series of yes or no questions and see what conclusions we can draw from this.

5: While some of the best guilds in the world use STR tanks for progression, do you really think that even a fraction of those who mimic them are close to their level of skill?

Answer key is:

5: No. (I am damn good at what I do. I am however human, and prone to the occasional albeit rare mistake. All STR tanks I have seen have been laughable pathetic mouthbreathing idiots at best. You should #gitabetterPRdepartment)

Because people who try and fail, try without understanding, or are just idiots in general are representative of all or even the majority.

Too much groupthink, parroting, and "I've never had a good experience".

[Airswimmer]

Playing a roulette of which tank gets completely excluded from the current content is a really shitty meta. Warriors were shit in 2.0, they complained, they got buffed to be a viable choice. Being a viable choice is all we want. I myself already have a raid static, but I feel as if I'll be holding them back in A3S so it's still a concern.

People need to stop pretending as if PLD isn't viable or anywhere near comparable to 2.0 WAR. The only encounter in the game where PLD's viability is questionable is A4S, and that has more to do with encounter design rather than class design.

[Ashkendor]

5: No. (I am damn good at what I do. I am however human, and prone to the occasional albeit rare mistake. All STR tanks I have seen have been laughable pathetic mouthbreathing idiots at best. You should #gitabetterPRdepartment)

I've seen good strength tanks. I've seen awful strength tanks. I've seen good vitality tanks. I've seen awful vitality tanks. I've even seen tanks in Intelligence, Mind, or Dexterity gear but that's a whole other can of worms right there. Me, I run in melded gear when there's decent stuff available. Otherwise, it's STR all day because I like to be able to kill things rather than feel like I'm beating them with a wet noodle. When I'm healing, I'd rather have the awful tank in VIT gear because awful tanks don't typically use their CD's correctly. On the other hand, I'd rather have the good tank be in STR gear because they put out more damage, they pull more aggro, and I have no problem keeping them alive. To a good tank, extra hp is wasted stats just like extra accuracy over the cap is.

[Seshayn]

I've seen good strength tanks. I've seen awful strength tanks. I've seen good vitality tanks. I've seen awful vitality tanks. I've even seen tanks in Intelligence, Mind, or Dexterity gear but that's a whole other can of worms right there. Me, I run in melded gear when there's decent stuff available. Otherwise, it's STR all day because I like to be able to kill things rather than feel like I'm beating them with a wet noodle. When I'm healing, I'd rather have the awful tank in VIT gear because awful tanks don't typically use their CD's correctly. On the other hand, I'd rather have the good tank be in STR gear because they put out more damage, they pull more aggro, and I have no problem keeping them alive. To a good tank, extra hp is wasted stats just like extra accuracy over the cap is.

I believe that good str tanks exist. I just believe that they are fewer and farther between than the bad ones. I have met a few STR tanks who were decent. I won't say you're allowed to be considered a good STR tank unless you can manage doing it with at least one bad healer in a full party, and a sub par one in a light party. Obviously, I am only talking about DF/PF here, statics are like vegas. What you do there is your business.

I keep seeing people say "Strength tanks pull more aggro" Is this even a problem for most vit tanks? Really? Cuz I don't see it. Then again, long ago I taught my SMN/BLM what happens when I catch them not using quelling. Low level tank paddles still have uses... And considering our Dragoon does 1200 regularly, and our BLM is one of the best I have ever seen, I can't really believe I hold aggro (and have always done so) because they just don't output good damage. If I remember right our dragoons opener spikes well above 2.2k and I have no problems in the initial pull, and he only ever uses Elusive for fun. Since I don't parse (I leave that to the dps) I am going on memory, but like I said before, I just can't see the reason I hold aggro is they have light damage.

The only real aggro problems I have are when warriors spam BB as off tanks, and won't even keep up their storms eye. This leaves me with far less wiggle room to add my goring blades and royal authority peppered in, and forces me to throw more halones than normal. That said, any warrior who doesn't keep up Storm's Eye is bad and should feel bad.

[Ashkendor]

I believe that good str tanks exist. I just believe that they are fewer and farther between than the bad ones. I have met a few STR tanks who were decent. I won't say you're allowed to be considered a good STR tank unless you can manage doing it with at least one bad healer in a full party, and a sub par one in a light party.

I keep seeing people say "Strength tanks pull more aggro" Is this even a problem for most vit tanks? Really? Cuz I don't see it. Then again, long ago I taught my SMN/BLM what happens when I catch them not using quelling. Low level tank paddles still have uses...

Pulling more aggro really only shines if you're trying to tank in your DPS stance.

It's pretty much a moot point in tank stance unless you're undergeared.

The only real aggro problems I have are when warriors spam BB as off tanks, and won't even keep up their storms eye. This leaves me with far less wiggle room to add my goring blades and royal authority peppered in, and forces me to throw more halones than normal. That said, any warrior who doesn't keep up Storm's Eye is bad and should feel bad.

Yeah, this is a problem too. The fact that BB is higher potency and generates more aggro makes it a PITA.

[Misha_Tameshigiri]

If you can't hold aggro off of your DPS, that is entirely your fault.
Even if it's a SMN/BLM, if you aren't holding aggro off of them NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE DOING you are failing to complete the most basic part of your job.
Hell, you should be glad that they can push enough DPS to out-hate you.

[Airswimmer]

I keep seeing people say "Strength tanks pull more aggro" Is this even a problem for most vit tanks?

It's not a "problem", per se, but a benefit to the STR tank in the sense that it allows you to DPS due to needing fewer enmity combos/less time in your tanking stance.

[Seshayn]

If you can't hold aggro off of your DPS, that is entirely your fault.
Even if it's a SMN/BLM, if you aren't holding aggro off of them NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE DOING you are failing to complete the most basic part of your job.
Hell, you should be glad that they can push enough DPS to out-hate you.

Huh? You do realize what you just said was this "If your dps doesn't use their off global cooldown ability that costs them nothing in order to do their job, you're not doing your job!" right? You should read what you wrote, and understand it. Because to someone with a brain, it is HILARIOUS! I don't really know if they could pull initial aggro from me without their quelling strikes. The reason I don't know this, is because they know better. However, with your stupid, stupid response, you have literally advocated someone not using all the abilities of their class for...absolutely no reason aside from whatever twisted machinations the monkeys banging on typewriters in your brain saw fit to publish.

Side note, it's funny how since a friend told me to start noticing the join dates of some of the people I find to be quite stupid on these forums, just how much of a trend you start to notice...

[Misha_Tameshigiri]

Nice job reading around my post, bro.
My point is that it's incredibly hard for you to lose aggro to similarly geared DPS.
If you are losing aggro to your DPS, you are either fucking up or they are putting out numbers high enough to be in world first clears.

[Seshayn]

Nice job reading around my post, bro.
My point is that it's incredibly hard for you to lose aggro to similarly geared DPS.
If you are losing aggro to your DPS, you are either fucking up or they are putting out numbers high enough to be in world first clears.

My mistake then if I read around your post, it seemed to me like you were pretty clear about the fact that enmity reduction abilities were meant to never ever be used. Have you ever seen a Black Mage proc 5 thunders in the first 20 seconds of a fight? I have.