Religion is bad, M'kay?

[Delily]

How are you able to exceed the character limit? Some sort of Limit Break? I've had to post several times to get things across and it can get frustrating. But anyway, I've grown weary of this topic, so here's my ultimate reply: "Okay, whatever." People will continue to believe whatever they want to believe. Still angry tho. You can't deny that if you take away religion, the only thing left will be the self-centered narcissism that makes people think they're special snowflakes, and the strongest and smartest snowflakes can bully others if they're charismatic, influential, and powerful enough to make other people behave and think the way they want. And you don't even need a fancy hat for it not even objective moral obligations, just your unshakable faith in yourself.

I'd like to introduce you to someone named Fredrich Nietzsche. Before you respond with the claims of the ubermensch, nihilism, and God is Dead, I'd highly recommend you look into On the Genealogy of Morals and Beyond Good and Evil. The claim that a god is necessary for morality is far from settled. However, if you need a god to be a good person, I'd say the problem is with you.

[RickXRolled]

Just because Shakespeare said it, doesn't mean it's true. Othello is a cautionary tale about what happens when black men get together with white women; Merchant of Venice says "Jews should convert to Christianity, no matter how right they are." do you still wish to quote Shakespeare or conveniently pick what suits your agenda? That's what Islamic terrorists do, and if it's all the same to you, then let me do it with the Bible and you should not be shocked.

If only religous people would apply critical thinking like this to their holy books.*cough*

[karateorangutang]

If only religous people would apply critical thinking like this to their holy books.*cough*

Why is it that non-religious individuals have the heavy handed criticism that all individuals that follow an organized religion are always going against their beliefs? I personally don't follow a religion, but I've also never had anyone try to convert me on a daily, weekly, or even monthly basis. However, I have had alot of non religious individuals that on a daily basis go out of their way to try to prove that religion is stupid.

This argument has such a double standard that alot of people tend to ignore, especially in a online environ.

To the OP:

Yes, JRPG's have a heavy theme organized religion being bad. This is a historical thing for Japan because as Christianity moved in to Japan, the reformation of that people was incredibly heavy handed. The Japanese were a proud people and took offense to it, so yes i's a common theme among JRPG's. Additionally, if you study polls in Japan, the religious population is incredibly small in comparison to western countries. Most people only visit shrines and temples on trips or holidays and only do so because its a social norm, not a relationship to a higher power.

[DPZ2]

so here's my ultimate reply: "Okay, whatever."

I came in late to this mish-mosh, and wanted to respond to the thought behind your original question, only to find you didn't REALLY want an answer, you just wanted to vent. Fine by me, but you started with the wrong premise.

It is not Religion that is the enemy, it is a fallible human being using Religion as a sword. It was Thordan's will, not Halone's, being asserted. Or did you mean to imply that becoming a God in his own right was a correct interpretation of Halone's will?

The Ishgardian faith in Halone predates the church infrastructure, indeed predates the problems caused by the first Thordan's actions. The Archbishop and his plans were not representational of the Ishgardian faith, nor was his purpose a noble one. The Ishgardian faith survives after the debacle brought on by the Archbishop.

Hence your premise that SE is anti-organized-religion is not supported.

[Cilia]

Snip

Yep, I have a Limit Break that allows me to... break the character limit! Muahahaha! (If you just compose and cut / edit / paste a long post, it won't show up as "edited" if you do it within about 2 minutes.)

Actually, I can deny that taking away religion leads to people being self-centered narcissists. Sort of. I would argue that taking away religion simple reveals a person's true character; if you only do good things because you're afraid of being punished in the afterlife, are you really a good person? People who renounce religion are simply free to decide for themselves what is right and wrong instead of following the teachings of something whose existence can be neither proven nor disproven. People who renounce religion are simply free to make their own choices on what is right and wrong, but have the responsibility for what those choices entail.

This can lead to the absolute worst of humanity, but it can also show the very best. Nobody is inherently good or evil.

Back on topic (sort of)...

FF12 does fall into the usual pitfall of "Gods are bad, humans should follow their own path". The Occuria are responsible for the Espers and almost leading Ashe away from her vengeance quest. Ashe destroys them in response to messing with her mind.

The Occuria actually encourage Ashe to pursue her vengeance, because the only way to overpower the Archadian Empire outright is to use deifacted nethicite which can only be granted by the Occuria and thus put her in the palm of their hand. Ashe eventually rejects their control and stops pursuing vengeance at all costs, putting the reins of history back into the hands of man.

This sort of works in conjunction with Venat, who was pursuing a similar agenda with Cid and Vayne. By helping them develop manufacted nethicite, Venat was giving Archadia the power to conquer all of Ivalice against the wishes of the other Occuria, also putting the reins of history back into the hands of man.

That said, there's no religion, organized or otherwise, based around the Occuria. The only people aware of them at the start of the story are Cid and Vayne though Venat, and during the course of the story the party learns of their existence, but they remain alive (if hidden) and nobody worships them. So, manipulative "gods," but not anti-religious.

[PogueX]

It is a theme in most FF games, FF10 for example with the enemy being Sin, as well as FF tactics with the player killing St Ajora, as well as FF6's Kefka whose final god form resembles the Christian images on the Sistine Chapel


But i think what people are missing is the understanding of Japanese culture. They don't hate religion in Japan but the idea of one organized religion dictating people's lives is vastly different from their culture. Christianity for example states that humans are sinful by nature, but Buddhism says that humans must better themselves so they can become a perfect person and enter into Nirvana (which is what Christianity says is impossible cause we are sinful by nature) So they contradict each other. Rather then following one religion they practice in a mixture of religions, the Japanese get blessed in Shinto temples, have christian marriages, and then get buried in a Buddhist funeral

therefore one religion ruling all seems like a threat

[Byonka]

"Hear... Feel... Think..."

[Akiza]

Religion is a crutch to make man feel as if they are the most important species in the cosmos and the cosmos was made for them. It's convient to believe that god created the entire cosmos for us that we are created in hs image and we are loved. Its convient to think there is a grand plan and purpose to the world. The reality is at the scale of the Cosmos we don't exists in fact nothing in the Cosmos exists there is mostly darkness and emptiness with pin point flashes of light that qucikly fades. On value we don't have value the only reason we are valuable and important is because we ourselves believe that we are valuable and have importance so we extend that to others. We also project are purpose onto the world around us and extend it to the Cosmos which has no purpose, ryme or reason. The Cosmos has no location in space no moment in time it contains all physical events and all possibilities at once occuring in different parts of spacetime it simply is. At the end of the day there is no purpose and no reason for the Cosmos.