Religion is bad, M'kay?

[Delily]

And so the problem with non-Western religions is that they can get away with being wishy-washy since they are filled with magical thought than rational philosophy. It had been the last stages of Aristotelian/Platonic philosophy that had arrived to the conclusion reiterated by Western religions: 1.What ever begins to exist has a cause. 2.The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the universe has a cause. If you believe the Universe existed forever, then you must not know how the Law of Thermodynamics works- namely that processes in a closed system reaches for equilibrium; if infinite, the universe would've ran out of energy long ago. Since the universe can't cause itself, then the cause must be beyond the Universe, beyond space, time, immaterial, eternal, and powerful. Much better than an egg or whatever it is they believe in eastern religions.

You're bordering on what's known as the First Cause fallacy. There's nothing wrong with using causality to claim the Universe had a beginning, but to then extrapolate hat claim into whatever deity you worship is where the argument breaks down.

I suspect by Eastern religions, you're referring to either Hinduism or Buddhism. Hinduism has a creation story, and Buddhism remains silent on the matter, because it's irrelevant to enlightenment.


To answer you original question, religion is one of the easiest way to control people, since it appeals directly to their emotions and beliefs. It's one of the easiest vehicles to use.

[IoannesBellator]

Because not all religions are the same. The First Cause isn't a fallacy by any means, but I can see where you'd think that it would because of my borderline conflation of Platonic First Cause/Demiurge with the Judeo-Christian God.

And for the record, before anyone accuses Catholicism of the cause of all wars ever, Buddhism and Hinduism aren't some ideal, peace-loving religions. Just ask the Muslims in Burma/Myanmar how their Buddhist neighbors treat them as well as the treatment of Christians by Hindus at Orissa. And I'd think we're all justified at some level- coexistence is a lie. I myself would quickly grab a gun if a Crusade is ever called- but then again, what's the likeliness of Pope Francis ever doing that, or even regular Catholics doing it?

[Delily]

Because not all religions are the same. The First Cause isn't a fallacy by any means, see where you'd think that it would because of my borderline conflation of Platonic First Cause/Demiurge with the Judeo-Christian God.

You're correct it's not. The fallacy is when you jump from the first cause into the cosmological argument.

And for the record, before anyone accuses Catholicism of the cause of all wars ever, Buddhism and Hinduism aren't some ideal, peace-loving religions. Just ask the Muslims in Burma/Myanmar how their Buddhist neighbors treat them as well as the treatment of Christians by Hindus at Orissa. And I'd think we're all justified at some level- coexistence is a lie. I myself would quickly grab a but I can gun if a Crusade is ever called- but then again, what's the likeliness of Pope Francis ever doing that, or even regular Catholics doing it?

The irony is thick with this one. You say you do not see the justification for anti-religious sentiments, then you go onto mention 2 examples of why religion is viewed with suspicion.

[Akiza]

And so the problem with non-Western religions is that they can get away with being wishy-washy since they are filled with magical thought than rational philosophy. It had been the last stages of Aristotelian/Platonic philosophy that had arrived to the conclusion reiterated by Western religions: 1.What ever begins to exist has a cause. 2.The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the universe has a cause. If you believe the Universe existed forever, then you must not know how the Law of Thermodynamics works- namely that processes in a closed system reaches for equilibrium; if infinite, the universe would've ran out of energy long ago. Since the universe can't cause itself, then the cause must be beyond the Universe, beyond space, time, immaterial, eternal, and powerful. Much better than an egg or whatever it is they believe in eastern religions.

The law of thermaodynamics state that matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed only transform so by that logic the Universe existed forever its only the current iteration of the Universe that hasn't. Secondly energy and matter doesn't just disappear because there is nowhere for them to go they just cycle back and forth from usable to unusable. There is no need to invoke God.

[myahele]

Well the problem there is that Western religions tend to be absolutist; they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong. This gives followers of the faith a common enemy, and as we all know nothing brings people together quite like having someone or something they can all hate.

I could be wrong, but didn't parts of Japan try to slaughter the early Jesuit missionaries and Japanese Christians?

[Cilia]

I could be wrong, but didn't parts of Japan try to slaughter the early Jesuit missionaries and Japanese Christians?

My knowledge of Eastern history is not too great; however, I believe you are correct, though not for the reasons most people believe.

Medieval Japan was very, very big on loyalty to the Emperor and one's Lord. Since Christianity places God above all other loyalties, the Emperor (etc.) thought it would cause conflict with loyalty to him, so Christians were persecuted. Christianity still is a minority religion in Japan to this day, though considering modern societies have largely evolved past religious persecution and the Emperor is little more than a figurehead these days, that's probably just because Christianity is not native to Japan.

[IoannesBellator]

My knowledge of Eastern history is not too great; however, I believe you are correct, though not for the reasons most people believe..

There were plenty of successes in Christian missions to Japan, mostly because peasants who fear being killed by their Samurai overlords have something to look forward to than rot indefinitely (Yomi in Shinto) or be reincarnated into a hit-or-miss future life (Buddhism). When St. Francis Xavier landed in Japan, the Japanese were very sharp: they'd ask questions like "If this is the true religion, why arrive just now?" And that's not a bad thing because it made missionaries shape up their theology and and show the best they can offer. And then the native Buddhist religious leaders got insecure and everyone else didn't like any departure from the status quo "Peasants having the same fundamental dignity as I? I think not!" And quickly got rid of the Christian missionaries.

[Kuwagami]

snip

The Final Fantasy series do not portray organized religion as evil. They portray fanatism and blind (mass) murder in the name of a god. Things organized religious groups.. err, tend to do at some point in their history (unless they get crushed before, that is).

I have yet to find any "Religion = Evil" message in any FF I've played. All the games featuring crystals are basically "save these gods and the world with them", FFVI has nothing against the espers but

Kefka is one psychotic murderous god so we kill him

.

in FFVII you're saving a god against an alien, in FFT you're fighting against fanatics abusing the powers of the gods, not the religion itself. Can't comment on 8 & 9 as I have yet to do them.

FFX : the religion itself is corrupted at its core because of a misunderstanding.

In the end you put it on rails again and the belief itself brings no harm anymore upon Spira

FFXII : nothing to do with religion directly, more "abuse of political power"

can't comment on 13.

in FFXIV the gods as we fight them are just Aether-sucking illusions. And Ishgard has a particular case of fanatism, but the religion of the Twelves in itself has yet to be pictured as "bad".

[Cilia]

snip

Now we're doing this...

It's not really my place to comment on Eastern religions, because I don't know very much about them. However, what you call "wishy-washy magical thought" is arguably wiser than "there is one God as spelled out in the Christian Bible," and just as important to them as the Bible is to Christians. That "wishy-washy magical thought" generally accepts that it doesn't know everything, and the wisest thing anyone can say is "I do not know," because it's only though accepting your own ignorance that you can learn.

Seriously though, if you're going to call other religions stupid you should be willing to accept your own religion is stupid, or at least has stupid things within it.

Anyway, yes thermodynamics is a thing, but without knowing how much initial heat (energy) existed it's impossible to calculate how much time it would take to reach equilibrium. We're actually headed towards that effect, otherwise known as the Heat Death of the Universe. Scary stuff, huh?

snip

VIII has nothing religious about or in it, and IX has churches but the religion of the planet is not really touched on.

XIII's relationship with faith is... complicated. There's one good goddess, the rest of the gods are evil, but it has little to do with human worship.

[Dalvy]

Some characters are very religious, despite knowing that the leaders of their faith are corrupt. There is Lucia who calls on Halone for strength. Garleans are more or less atheist and yet there she is, praying to Her during steps of faith.

It's not the faith that is bad, but the ones who call themselves leaders of men. Even the druid/shamanism of Gridania has draconian aspects that are easily corruptable.