Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Rhomagus]

btw Rhomagus, you didn't respond to my post. What question did i not answer?

Ya you only read the last part which wasn't really the question only something to keep in mind when answering the question.

The last part was a disclaimer so that you didn't pigeon hole me as a post WoW gamer.

Here's the link to the entire post.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post328853

I intended to reference this proposal and question combination:

Anything that takes time requires us to be more involved

AFK on an airship involves me how again?

[Bled]

Which is why I asked you for examples of games that are popular because people enjoy having to wait without having the option to do otherwise. I don't understand why you cannot enjoy your waiting while other people have the option of not waiting if they so choose(since it's pretty obvious from all the topics that it's quite a divided issue).
Because you won't have anyone to wait with? If it was something everyone enjoyed, why wouldn't there be anyone to wait with? If it's forced, the people who don't enjoy it are just going to be AFK, and you end up no better off while they end up inconvenienced.

Before the skip cut scene feature, waiting was a huge part of video games, so do i really need to list them off for you? Even in call of duty there are parts of the game where you are forced to watch a scene play out before you. You say whats so bad allowing people the option to insta telepot i re rebuttal with Abysea from FF11.

When SE created abysea in FF11 they said "o hey guys abysea wont ruin anything because people can still choose to experience the old content". well guess what it did ruin FF11, by creating content that is so drastically different and "easy access" that makes old content obsolete, you pigonhole people into having to use the new content. In reality by introducing all of this new instant gratification content all old content and immersion is becoming obsolete thus forcing people to use said new instant gratification while masking its true cause by saying "were giving you the option to choose".

Choice is over rated, especially when the people choosing are as smart as your common household cat.

[Rhomagus]

I see the response now. You separated the WoW tidbit onto the next page.

I still disagree with you though, but that's because our design philosophies are different. MMO's don't have to be a lifestyle choice, they can compliment one's lifestyle choices. In XIV, you can still choose to make it a lifestyle choice. The content in it is immersive enough to do so. I have a web show, chat with fellow players, and generally spend a large chunk of time dedicated to the game. I also appreciate the aspects of the game that will still keep me around when my life changes and doesn't require me to give so much to the game in order to get enjoyment out of it. Immersion is a term of bias and is different for everyone. Hence my logic that immersion should never be forced unto people.

Which supports why having the option to either view or not view the proposed airship cutscene/sequence should be available to both types of players.

[Jaber]

Before the skip cut scene feature, waiting was a huge part of video games, so do i really need to list them off for you? Even in call of duty there are parts of the game where you are forced to watch a scene play out before you. You say whats so bad allowing people the option to insta telepot i re rebuttal with Abysea from FF11.

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

[PrettyPrincess]

GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

They...removed the level caps

[Azurymber]

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

i found CoP easy to do. And almost everyone got it done. It was a challenge. It made it that much more special when you got past the promys. Once you got level sync and could use high level gear i dont know many ppl who had problems with it. On my server ppl who shouted in town got a party together in less than 30min usually.

[Jaber]

They removed the cap? As in, you can go in and faceroll the place with your level 75/100/whatever char?
I quit playing just before they released Abysea, and at that time it still hobbled you at level 30.

I saw people shouting for parties for hours, then they'd disappear, come back an hour later, and start shouting again, presumably because they lost.
It took me many tries to clear each one, and when I helped LS members with it we had pretty much the same results every time. There was a specific strategy to follow, and it usually relied on luck and spamming consumables, much like the BCNM fights now that I think about it. The level 75 ones were great. They were challenging, but they didn't rely on you being a specific job with specific gear spamming consumables and getting lucky
But, that's going off on a tangent...

Regardless of how they are now, there was a very long period of time in which they were so bothersome to do that people did them once to get closer to that rajas/tamas ring then never ever again ever. :/

[PrettyPrincess]

yup! .

[Azurymber]

They removed the cap? As in, you can go in and faceroll the place with your level 75/100/whatever char?
I quit playing just before they released Abysea, and at that time it still hobbled you at level 30.

I saw people shouting for parties for hours, then they'd disappear, come back an hour later, and start shouting again, presumable because they lost.

Abyssea killed all the adventure in FFXI and easymoded everything. And the game died. go figure.

[Nabiri]

When SE created abysea in FF11 they said "o hey guys abysea wont ruin anything because people can still choose to experience the old content". well guess what it did ruin FF11, by creating content that is so drastically different and "easy access" that makes old content obsolete, you pigonhole people into having to use the new content. In reality by introducing all of this new instant gratification content all old content and immersion is becoming obsolete thus forcing people to use said new instant gratification while masking its true cause by saying "were giving you the option to choose".

And this is why I'm having a hard time going back to XI lately. Currently on break, not paying for it. Abyssea took over the game and made everything easy mode - especially leveling. It was fun for a while but now that I've done it I'm bored. I've gotten everything I wanted from it - now what? lol No one plays the rest of the game anymore. The game I loved is pretty much dead.
Though I get it in a way - the game is old, it needed to attract new players. It's just sad to see XIV handing everything out without any effort on the players' part from the start of the game.
Handing out things on a silver platter = bad idea.