(3.1) Balancing Rental Airships vs Player Crafted Airships

[Yeldir]

No, it isn't. They have been releasing left hand gear alongside a new raid, and right hand (accessories) gear the next patch since 2.2. Go check the patch notes... 2.2 did not have i90 accessories, 2.3 did. 2.4 did not have i110 accessories, 2.5 did... 3.0 not having i180 accessories, them instead coming in 3.1 (probably) is exactly what they've been doing for over a year... That is not a new development...

Item level isn't everything. Viability of crafted gear also depends on materia - in many cases (particularly accessories) you could make a piece of lower item level crafted gear equal to or even marginally superior to dropped gear via melding. A lot of early coil raiders did just this. This functionality and flexibility is gone, by design. The materia isn't there.

The wheel taking three days to spin really isn't an issue... You can either burn 12,000 Credits a day on Actions (assuming you're using 2 Grade 2 Actions every day, if you're not using Actions every day, then the time taken to spin one out shouldn't matter at all), or you can use the Aetherial Wheel. Over the course of three days, your options are;

1. Spend 36,000 Credits on 6 Grade 2 Actions.
2. Spend 24,000 Credits on 4 Grade 2 Actions, produce 1 Grade 2 Action and 1 Grade 3 Action off the wheel.
3. Spend 18,000 Credits on 3 Grade 2 Actions, produce 1 Grade 1 Action, 1 Grade 2 Action, and 1 Grade 3 Action off the wheel.

With the wheel, you can effectively halve you Credits cost on Actions for no cost to potency (since the cost of using a Grade 1 Action will be offset by the Grade 3). Those 200k+ Credits you've spent would be made up faster than you'd think, when you're saving 18,000 Credits/3 days.

You've got me convinced, here. Well stated.

That's a serious benefit IMO, and it's on top of the Gil I'm raking in which I'm not convinced will suddenly become worthless because SE decided crafting materials should be absurdly rare. If patch 3.0 goes on for another year, then I'd be worried, but 3.1 is on the way, then after that we'll have 3.2. There are plenty of chances for them to create new demand for the materia my Airships are churning out. I'd perhaps be worried if Sphere Scrolls were never a thing, but they were.

... My point was that it mirrors tomestones. Whereas in ARR we had i55 sets and then Artisans, I suspect they'll be replacing the current crafting sets in 3.2 (same time Esoterics will go uncapped and we'll get a new set), which gives us more potential for a boost in demand for Materia. Whereas in ARR we only really had two points where crafting Materia got a large boost in demand, here we might have three.

Yeah, it mirrors them. Some kind of twisted evil funhouse mirror, that shows us getting our throats slashed by a clown.

You're betting the way things are can't possibly be the game from now on, in spite of SE stating, specifically, that they want crafted gear to be so bad it can never be used in any fresh raids. You're betting they'll change their minds, huh?

Let me tell you what I was thinking when crafted airships were announced: I was hoping for the airships myself and a couple of my officers worked so hard on to be something that excited the entire free company. I wanted to benefit them in a meaningful way, beyond throwing gil at them - and there are far easier and faster ways to generate gil than airships.

[Nalien]

Item level isn't everything. Viability of crafted gear also depends on materia - in many cases (particularly accessories) you could make a piece of lower item level crafted gear equal to or even marginally superior to dropped gear via melding. A lot of early coil raiders did just this. This functionality and flexibility is gone, by design. The materia isn't there.

I know... Getting i90 crafted stuff in 2.2 seemed fairly lackluster, considering we were getting i100/110 from tomestones/Coil, and everyone already have i90 Mythology gear, but the melds/fact that tomestone/Coil was on a weekly lockout made up for it. Again though, my point has nothing to do with the viability of the gear, simply that getting crafted accessories a patch later is nothing new. It's literally been happening since 2.2 when we didn't get the i90 crafted accessories until 2.3...

You specifically mentioned the lack of crafted i180 accessories as though it was some new shocking change. That's all I'm really commenting on at this point... If you want to complain about the state of crafting, make a thread about that, as far as I'm concerned, crafting doomsaying is laughable at best and heck when it comes to Airships... That only applies to selling the materia (of which the gathering/crafting ones are the only real big ticket items, at least on my server) and miscellaneous items... The idea that the rare items like Dusk Leather and Iron Giant Cores will suddenly lose their value is quite alien to me... Will I still be able to bring in 10m off one Voyage with them in a month or two? Probably not, but will they lose all value and make Airships worthless? Not by a long shot.

Do me a favour, go to the Market Board and check the price of the Blue Bird minion, or any of the Treasure Map minions... These are from what, 2.1? Treasure Maps are also something which aren't locked behind Free Companies. We can easily work out how many Airships there are on a server by just checking the housing wards. Meanwhile literally everyone can do Treasure Maps daily. On Cerberus, the original Treasure Map minions are worth as much as Iron Giant Cores, I have little worry of them depreciating in value with that in mind. If items that old and that "common" still have value (and still move), I don't think I have to worry much about my Airship suddenly bringing in worthless items... Another apt comparison would be any of the gardening items, those are all still plenty worthwhile for me, because like the Airship items, they're locked behind housing, so there is a fairly fixed supply.

You're betting the way things are can't possibly be the game from now on, in spite of SE stating, specifically, that they want crafted gear to be so bad it can never be used in any fresh raids. You're betting they'll change their minds, huh?

No, I'm betting that the majority of crafters simply wont care, and that 3.2 and 3.4 will bring new gathering/crafting gear (since Scrips mirror Tomestones) to renew interest in their materias and once again create a sizable demand for the mountains of still I bring in. I'm also betting that SE will, in some way, add new demand for combat materia, likely through something like the Sphere Scroll. Although even without that, Heaven's Eye/etc have been selling, just for fairly pathetic amounts when compared to the Sphere Scroll days. Seriously, who the hell is buying all the Accuracy materia I keep getting? That shouldn't even be needed for many melds, should it?

I guess if I'm betting on anything, it's that materia will always have a demand (although not really, because I'm fairly certain Iron Giant Cores and Dusk Leather will be hot topic items for a very long time). Currently I don't even know (or care) what that demand is for Heaven's Eye/etc, all I know is that it still sells, like it always has and always will. If SE royally f*cks crafting, to the point where all materia becomes unmovable, I'd be amazed beyond belief, more amazing if they leave it like that. If you want to talk about crafting, I have plenty of complaints and suggestions (where's my damned Abjuration system!), but this thread is about Airships, and since I last posted here, my Airships have pulled me in another 15m... These things aren't going to be worthless because SE gave everyone a free ride in Ishgard. If you think I'm shortsighted for saying that, so be it, but I really cannot see that 15m dropping to anything lower than 1m by 4.0, and I'd still consider that 1m to be great, considering all I really did was a glorified Retainer Venture...

The only people I can see being hard done by this, are people who haven't yet started because of the housing shortage. Still can't see Airships being unprofitable for them, though. Also worth remembering that construction will probably be cheaper for them, since Coke/etc. are currently being inflated by the high demand from all the Free Companies building Airships, once that dies down I'd expect the price on those items to return to normal, and anyone still building at that point has it fairly well off. Then there is upcoming content as well, I already pointed out the fact that the Islands in 3.1 are meant to have gathering nodes... It would be utterly pointless for those to be regular nodes for items like Mythrite Sand... I expect they'll at least be a new source of Darksteel/etc., which would increase the supply on those items and should push prices down.