Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

[Noelzzz]

Why do people see branching jobs as a bad thing? I'm pretty sure for jobs with the same role it can works actually pretty well, just see them as if were another spec. How can people say that branching jobs will play the same? Do you know that going on we will get only jobs skills? if you play this game with a decent knowledge of the job you know how much a class can change with just 5 jobs skills. For me Ranger and Thief must be in this game, they are iconic jobs and will add variety. I dont understand why, instead of trying to get a better game, people answer with "no"

[RiceisNice]

...

Because if we were to go with this implementation, Ranger would still have all of bard skills minus songs (except swiftsong, that would be on ranger) and level 52-60 abilities. This includes traits and passives like river of blood. While it's adding new skills, the base foundation of the class still remains, and 5 skills does not dramatically change how they play; you're severely underestimating how much of the job is tied to their class abilities.

The only other class that has branching jobs is summoner/scholar, and that comes with a complete change in role and still comes with balancing problems (they cant buff SMN without buffing SCH)

[Noelzzz]

Ranger would still have all of bard skills minus songs (except swiftsong, that would be on ranger) and level 52-60 abilities

Ranger will have all archers skills not bards, do you really think that 10 jobs skill can't change how you play a class? About traits, yoshi-p in an interview said that at some point will introduce a skill tree system

[RiceisNice]

Ranger will have all archers skills not bards, do you really think that 10 jobs skill can't change how you play a class? About traits, yoshi-p in an interview said that at some point will introduce a skill tree system

Actually, yes I do. Unless it completely changes your role, you're still doing to be using the same archer skills to dps and it will not deviate far from how bard plays. The two classes will never compete for a dps slot with each other because BRD/MCH are considered the "support-dps" in group comp and are the only two classes who can do such. 10 skills will not change how a class plays, only add onto it. The exception is that if it changes your role entirely in the case of SCH/SMN, if only because they give you abilities that is suited for that role (SCH gets mostly healing abilities to help do their job)

I stopped to read here. I could use "git gud", "learn 2 play", "go to smn op" but i'll try to post something relevant.

WM brings more dps. i prefer lose my mobility and earn 30% damage than move like a headless chicken or my ass is on fire.

Bard now is useful in good hands and a disaster in "smashing button" players. Our cast time is 1'40 and 1'50. It's unusual any aoe i can't cast and avoid after the execution. If i can't cast i will have bloodletter, sidewinder, flaming arrow, any oGCD to buff me or last resort, "feint".

I will rant if "feint" has castime.

You said you stopped reading, indirectly tell people to get good, tried to post something relevant, and post something completely irrelevant to the discussion (talking bout how good WM is instead of the idea of getting a 2nd branching job for archer)....

[Noelzzz]

Actually, yes I do. Unless it completely changes your role, you're still doing to be using the same archer skills to dps and it will not deviate far from how bard plays. The two classes will never compete for a dps slot with each other because BRD/MCH are considered the "support-dps" in group comp and are the only two classes who can do such. 10 skills will not change how a class plays, only add onto it.

You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.
Ps: for me the ranger, as a physical dps, could even take second melee spot in a party composition

[Duelle]

You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.

They don't play the same. Lancer is still designed around positional attacks while Rogues ignore it entirely. Rogues also have sneak attack/trick attack and Jugulate's utility, whereas Lancer's only utility is Leg Sweep. Having combos doesn't make classes similar to one another. Neither does filling the same role.

In all honesty, the OP reeks of how SE handled Red Mages in FFXI.

Problem: Red Mages weren't happy that their job was a refresh bot
Action taken: Players gave suggestions to fix Red Mage by making melee more attractive/viable in group settings
Response from SE: Instead of fixing the job, take the suggestions made by the players and give Red Mages the middle finger by implementing their suggestions to create Blue Mage, Dancer and (to an extent) Rune Fencer.

Again, sweeping the problem under the rug.

Problem: Bard players aren't happy their job was turned into bow-mage
Action taken: Discussions on implementation and general unhappiness of people who played BRD since ARR
Response from SE (according to the OP): Instead of fixing the job, give BRD players the middle finger by making a new job for them to level.

Our of all options available, this would be the worst thing SE could do.

[RiceisNice]

You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.
Ps: for me the ranger, as a physical dps, could even take second melee spot in a party composition

Rogue maintains no buffs. Lancers use short cooldowns to boost strong, single hitting abilities and have to maintain a buff which interrupts their current combo. Next thing you're gonna say is that marauder and gladiator both tank differently.

[GavynG]

Ranger will have all archers skills not bards, do you really think that 10 jobs skill can't change how you play a class? About traits, yoshi-p in an interview said that at some point will introduce a skill tree system

It's funny. Because it's one skill that changed a job that spawned this topic and other threads to begin with.

I want Thief, I want Ranger, and I'm curious about the skill system they were talking about. Other MMOs have multiple specs per class, and having multiple jobs per class in this game would only add the variety people want so they can stop complaining about how "same-y" everything is. If other game devs can do it, so can Square.

Variety is the spice of life. Or something.

[Noelzzz]

It's funny. Because it's one skill that changed a job that spawned this topic and other threads to begin with.

I want Thief, I want Ranger, and I'm curious about the skill system they were talking about. Other MMOs have multiple specs per class, and having multiple jobs per class in this game would only add the variety people want so they can stop complaining about how "same-y" everything is. If other game devs can do it, so can Square.

Variety is the spice of life. Or something.

Exactly. And there are tons of ways to improve and adds new jobs (and specs) from these useless classes. A way to improve it, including the new extra jobs, would be like this:

Class/Job would be: class/job1 and job2 (rogue/ninja and thief, archer/bard and ranger, marauder/warrior and berserker etc)

Extra job system would be: job/ same job with a different role (Dark Knight tank/ dark knight dps, astrologist healer/ astrologist ranged dps support etc). With this kind of system they could add red mage and gives both healer/dps roles (or tank/healer)

At this point of the game they should spend more time for this kind of stuff instead of hildybrand and things like that..

[RiceisNice]

It's funny. Because it's one skill that changed a job that spawned this topic and other threads to begin with.

I want Thief, I want Ranger, and I'm curious about the skill system they were talking about. Other MMOs have multiple specs per class, and having multiple jobs per class in this game would only add the variety people want so they can stop complaining about how "same-y" everything is. If other game devs can do it, so can Square.

Variety is the spice of life. Or something.

Except, WM didn't change bard that much (at least it didn't if you didn't run around like a headless chicken in 2.x) except break things that weren't already broken. Putting deliverance (exclusively a dps stance) certainly didn't change how warrior plays as much as it just added onto how they play.

Just because other games do it (and some of them don't even do it well, looking at WoW in regards to marksmanship and survival hunters, espesically when it comes to balancing because as far as different specs that are all dps [such as the ranger/bard and thief/ninja], one clearly becomes better than the other objectively) doesn;t mean SE needs to do it. You'd still have the trouble of filling in group composition dynamics if ranger is supposed to be a pure physical ranged dps, but do they compete with casters or the other ranged dps, or pump their dps to match a melee so they fight for that spot instead (which opens a whole other can of worms).