Religion is bad, M'kay?

[Kaiser-Ace]

Well, personally, Divine Right doesnt sit well with me no matter who claims it.

Neither does "Divine Bloodlines" for much of the same reasons. So I guess i'm anti-Japenese eh?

No, I just recognize that those tend to be go to answers for incompetent rulers who can't otherwise justify rule.

Richard Cor de Leon didn't need to convence his people that he was a good king, they believed it all on their own.

So, this.misunderstanding is part cultural diffrences and mostly biased opposition infavor of one's own sect.

I guess as a Protostant American, "God Kings" and "Divine Apointment" just dont sit well with me. As opposition towards The Orthodoxy's system seems to rub you the wrong way.

I have no problem as I'm nutralist in it all IRL and in game.... I'd have sided with Gaius and Garlemauld in the Pretorium.

[jomoru]

I have no problem as I'm nutralist in it all IRL and in game.... I'd have sided with Gaius and Garlemauld in the Pretorium.

So you'd have litterally sided with Facist genocidal madmen. The reason you can't side with him is He's objectively WRONG.

[Kaiser-Ace]

So you'd have litterally sided with Facist genocidal madmen. The reason you can't side with him is He's objectively WRONG.

Actually, Gaius had valid points. The Primals, The Twelve, The True Eikons, they all have remarkable similarities that it's hard not to question if what he said was right. I may have even sided with Elidibues if given the opportunity because I'm not a one dimensional "Good Guy". Even IRL I describe my self as Chaotic Good.

Also, fun fact, Fascism is a belief in Nationalism, Militarism, and National Self Sufficiency. Totalitarianism is not necessarily an aspect of Fascism while Socialism and Marxist Communism are the exact opposites of it. If Capitalism is the Right Wing and Socialism is the Left Wing then Fascism is the Far Right while Marxist Communism is the Far Left.

I'm a self described Chaotic Good, Fascist, that does indeed believe in social darwinism because capitalism doesn't work without it. Why Fascism is associated with the Nazis I'll never know since they were Socialists and, as stated before, the opposite of fascists.

But now we're getting into the real world's issues and ergo breaking The MMO Creed, so I'll leave it where it sits and move on.

Now how we're we comparing Ishguard to modern corruption again?

[VargasVermillion]

So you'd have litterally sided with Facist genocidal madmen. The reason you can't side with him is He's objectively WRONG.

'objectively wrong'? not really, there's no such thing in politics. It all depends on perspective. Garleans do have a reason for their primal hatred and it's because they are slowly destroying the world by existing so they've chosen to remove the problem permanently and it is a solution, it's just whether or not you're willing to do so is a matter of perspective.

[jomoru]

snip

There totally is objective truth in reality and even in fiction. You can claim its political differences but when someone shouts the Sky is red and its my opinion you can't question it. They are wrong. The Garleans don't hunt down Primal summoners, Eikon worshipers to save the world. They want to conquer the world and use the "primitives don't know what they are doing" as moral justification.

And its not even true. Did the Domans summon a primal? No. The Garleans are just a bunch of self righteous conquerors. Gaius claims his nation is fair. Read over the caste system they fall under as described in the library. The Garlean nation isn't fair or just. Its cruelly regulated and uses up foreigners as second class citizens. Yeah he had a pet Roe who's so happy he could get above being used as a second class citizen he started preaching Gaius' fairness.

We also know that Primals exist independent of the Real thing. This is hammered Home by the MSQ. Shiva's soul sits with her beloved no matter how hard the Heretics tried. There was a Real Bahamut and his Summoning just created a murderous copy that was not the Dragon returned. SO yeah we know the Garleans are wrong about metaphysics.

Saying "maybe the Garleans have a point" is on par with saying "maybe the Ascians have a point" or even better "Maybe the Cloud of Darkness had a point" their point is just self serving lies for their horrific actions.

[VargasVermillion]

snip

In the grand scheme of things there is no good or evil, only reason we have such perceptions is how our society is currently built, you would be a fool to assume it couldn't possibly change to something you or I would perceive as 'wrong' or that the world is black and white. Fairness isn't real either.

[IoannesBellator]

In the grand scheme of things there is no good or evil, only reason we have such perceptions is how our society is currently built, you would be a fool to assume it couldn't possibly change to something you or I would perceive as 'wrong' or that the world is black and white. Fairness isn't real either.

Then you should look forward to social acceptance of pedophilia, animal cruelty, rape, mass murder, necrophilia, theft, oppression, and so, so, so many more that are natural. (There's no such thing as "consent" in the animal kingdom- that is also a human social construct, a lie people tell themselves, if you're willing to subscribe to that view.) If this is true, then any horrible thing that happens to you is just a matter of your own opinion and would not warrant any sympathy. Yes, I could empathize with you, but being a relativist would make me emotionally detached from your suffering as I ignore you and move along to commit subjectively horrible things to everyone.

[IoannesBellator]

Okay, so a bunch of meta topics will literally go on forever, which is the reason I previously stated that I preferred not to talk too much about my own living experience beyond the game, so getting the thread back on track to some extent- lorewise.

What exactly is the basis of this world, does Evil and Good exist in Hydaelyn, or is it merely "Light and Dark"? From what I get so far, Hydaelyn is good, and is Light, and so the Warrior of Light is necessarily good, right? But by what standards? There doesn't seem to be a central authority in the "ways of Hydaelyn" other than the Scions, but they don't seem to be an institution through which a person goes through their whole lives to mark their birth, growth, and death. I'm guessing it's like how Japanese treat Buddhism and Shinto- Birth and Life-related is Shinto/Gridania and Death is Buddhist/Uldah?

[jomoru]

In the grand scheme of things there is no good or evil, only reason we have such perceptions is how our society is currently built, you would be a fool to assume it couldn't possibly change to something you or I would perceive as 'wrong' or that the world is black and white. Fairness isn't real either.

In the grand scheme of things there are things that exist and things that do not. The Garlean "Point" is based on things that do not exist. Therefore they are objectively wrong.