NIN's It's time to stand up

[Alahra]

There seem to be some illusions going on in regards to lag on SE's servers: it is not just your connection.

That is, of course true. From what I've been made to understand, it's not really the servers, though. The game's netcode is re-used from FFXIV 1.0--they didn't rewrite the game from the ground up, and a lot of the code is still the same, and many of the latency issues that are player-wise are apparently tied to this. As a result, I'm not really sure how much they can do to fix it (especially since the interplay between one ISP and the game is going to be vastly different from that of another ISP and the game), since they would likely have to rewrite chunks of code that are fundamental, which would likely require a re-coding of just about all the game.

[Atreides]

NIN was overpowered pre 2.45, so you basically want top dps and top utility? Please just stop.

Yes, Ninja was indeed OP in the pre 2.45 scenario before the nerfs, but this is not the case anymore.
From my understanding we are currently on 3.07 and the situation is on a whole different level as several classes got skills which increase their damage output, while Ninja got the short end of the stick.
The utility is amazing and the damage we bring to the raid makes us desirable in almost any raid situation right now, so it's okay that our personal damage is a bit lower.
THEN we have DRG, amazing raid utility AND personal damage, by no means am I screaming for nerfs, I actually think after all the time they deserve to shine now but it makes the DPS "utility" = less personal damage point moot.
Monks needed the buff, they don't bring ANY damage support so might aswell make them shine with personal DPS, thats the spot they always had so why take it away.

[Syzygian]

That 3% monk buff is crap all, but since then I've seen quite a few savage pf's with spots only for dragoons and monks. Some are completely excluding ninjas. It's ridiculous and there is no need, but it's happening.

I see statements like this a lot, people need to think outside themselves and their own pity party for second and consider raid composition. If I have a party with a WAR/PLD tank setup, I have no reason to bring a NIN over a MNK/DRG. DRG is necessary because every group is going to have a ranged dps that wants that piercing debuff and of course Battle Litany is awesome. I'd want MNK over NIN b/c no DRK so no int debuff without one. This sounds finicky I grant you but if its a PF and you're doing it with filthy pugs you want the best comp you can get your hands on.

On the flip side, if there was a DRK/PLD setup, a NIN becomes utterly mandatory, and MNK becomes redundant.

If DRK/WAR, there's not really any reason to bring MNK or NIN in terms of raid synergy. In this case if it was my group I'd go DRG/BRD and then double-caster it.

[trailmix9999]

....... I'd want MNK over NIN b/c no DRK so no int debuff without one. This sounds finicky I grant you but if its a PF and you're doing it with filthy pugs you want the best comp you can get your hands on.

On the flip side, if there was a DRK/PLD setup, a NIN becomes utterly mandatory, and MNK becomes redundant.

If DRK/WAR, there's not really any reason to bring MNK or NIN in terms of raid synergy. In this case if it was my group I'd go DRG/BRD and then double-caster it.

What I got from this is pretty much play what you want cause it doesnt matter at this point in gear progression. NIN was in world 1st everything this time around, why does this thread exist besides the barely there TP issues? NIN needs a tp reduction on AE and SE doesnt gaf about your latency.. /endthread

[Stiel]

the only mandatory,is mnk if you dont have a drk,about drg buffing brd dps,its the same or prolly even less than what a nin brings to the table,and they should cancel ninja nerf,because since ppl dont understand,they never did it because raiton,it would barely add 5 dps at most in single,when they nerfed nin they nerfed nin aoe,because mnk had 0 aoe,drg had decent aoe,nin was top dog when ninja come out on aoe,now mnk is crazy on aoe,drg have geirskogul on top of what they already had,nin aoe is the problem now,and getting the nerf canceled,get us behind mnk and drg both by a bit,now we just have no aoe.

[Kumori_Kumo]

The game's netcode is re-used from FFXIV 1.0--they didn't rewrite the game from the ground up, and a lot of the code is still the same, and many of the latency issues that are player-wise are apparently tied to this.

*Cringe*
Oh god, really? It's worse than I thought, then. You can buy new servers, but a tangled web of inefficient netcode? That's kind of a nail in the coffin then. Very unfortunate. =(

[Alahra]

*Cringe*
Oh god, really? It's worse than I thought, then. You can buy new servers, but a tangled web of inefficient netcode? That's kind of a nail in the coffin then. Very unfortunate. =(

Mhm. They probably never thought to test NIN outside of the internal servers and so never considered how problematic the 0.5 recast on Mudra might be. I'm not sure what kind of solution they can really implement outside of the Mudra clint-side, Ninjutsu server-side fix that others have proposed (but they're probably wary of doing so because of the possibility for abuse).

[Metalwrath]

There is no Mudra lag.
I wondered why sometimes my mudra screwed up.It's a player thing.Nothing to do with servers.Basically whats happening is we are hitting the commands too early with mudra so the input isn't being recognised properly.Each part of Mudra has a cast time.We're trying to cast too early which is screwing it up.I've done it myself a few times.
My main concern with Ninja despite being a great dps class is it in the long run especially on single targets worth it to actually have an extra rotation to keep Huton up.
Obviously we need to keep Huton up but given the coolodown times between our mudra that lets us do sneak attack skills is it really any benefit to Ninjas to waste our give up a lot of our main dps combo for an extra raition.I don't think so.
Overall it probably gimps our dps more than if we were sticking with preheavensward rotations.I say this as Dream within a dream is of cooldown skill anyway.

[Shyle]

There is no Mudra lag.

Sure there's player error at times, but what you're saying is blatantly wrong.

[Alahra]

There is no Mudra lag.

This is actually demonstrably false. While player skill can and does impact mudra execution, so does latency. It's not reproducible on command but the most visible instance of this involves instances wherein you hit a mudra, its cooldown finishes, and the Ninjutsu button doesn't change to the proper Ninjutsu because latency has prevented the server from seeing that the mudra was executed properly. If you then hit the next Mudra, it will at times over-ride the first (or sometimes not be registered at all, depending on when the server "catches up" to your client-side inputs).