Change Player Commendations

[Selli]

I can tell that they had used a parser those runs.

Don't need a parser, mate. Generally higher on the enmity table = higher DPS. I tend to commend DPS who keep their buffs up (like Heavy Thrust and Hot Shot) and avoid AoEs. Just because someone is doing 1,000 DPS doesn't mean much to me if they're taking extra damage.

[Craiger]

Don't need a parser, mate. Generally higher on the enmity table = higher DPS. I tend to commend DPS who keep their buffs up (like Heavy Thrust and Hot Shot) and avoid AoEs. Just because someone is doing 1,000 DPS doesn't mean much to me if they're taking extra damage.

If you're a tank you can compare with enmity, but a lot of times the tank can't hold aggro on a boss, and I have to stop DPSing for a while. While I would still get pretty good DPS, it's more a case of the tank not being as skilled/under-geared. Another tank might have good enmity, or just play a tank job that has better enmity gain. That would come out as me doing less DPS if you just look at the enmity bar

It's possible to tell anyways, I know... but I think the tank/healer (if any) gets the commendation 9/10 times anyways, unless they use a parser. That's assuming you're doing really good DPS too ofc, enough for them to be impressed.

Dodging etc is more important ofc, but if we're talking about dungeons, that's not really an issue. I never mess up on mechanics in dungeons, and I always do high DPS (I like to set personal records), but I still rarely get commendations

[Selli]

Snip

Most people who use parsers do not use them for more casual content as it is incredibly rude (unless they are trying to see their own damage in an "action situation", that's the only time I could see anyone using a parser in a dungeon). I don't know anyone who uses them outside of raid content, especially to judge other players.

Everyone should be aware of enmity, that's why it can be used as a way to measure DPS. If you're not doing good DPS, you won't be high on the enmity table. That's why I said generally higher enmity = more DPS. If you had to stop attacking to lower your enmity, wouldn't that just make you lower on the parser and thus seem not as good? The enmity list seems like a more reliable gauge in that situation. Even if a tank is fairly geared and has strong lead on enmity, there's still a number/letter priority on the party list, even if the bars are barely visible.

My point is, you don't need to be parsed to get a commendation; the damage you do is only half the battle. The other half is having awareness for yourself and other party members. Keeping buffs up, avoiding AoEs, picking up items (like keys), and watching your enmity, are all signs of a good player that far exceeds pulling xx amount of DPS per encounter. People won't know your exact DPS values, so most people won't particularly care who's top DPS.

[Craiger]

Most people who use parsers do not use them for more casual content as it is incredibly rude (unless they are trying to see their own damage in an "action situation", that's the only time I could see anyone using a parser in a dungeon). I don't know anyone who uses them outside of raid content, especially to judge other players.

Everyone should be aware of enmity, that's why it can be used as a way to measure DPS. If you're not doing good DPS, you won't be high on the enmity table. That's why I said generally higher enmity = more DPS. If you had to stop attacking to lower your enmity, wouldn't that just make you lower on the parser and thus seem not as good? The enmity list seems like a more reliable gauge in that situation. Even if a tank is fairly geared and has strong lead on enmity, there's still a number/letter priority on the party list, even if the bars are barely visible.

My point is, you don't need to be parsed to get a commendation; the damage you do is only half the battle. The other half is having awareness for yourself and other party members. Keeping buffs up, avoiding AoEs, picking up items (like keys), and watching your enmity, are all signs of a good player that far exceeds pulling xx amount of DPS per encounter. People won't know your exact DPS values, so most people won't particularly care who's top DPS.

Yeah, you're right, players can/should be able to determine if someone is good without a parser, but it makes things easier. Btw, I don't use a parser to judge other players, I simply use it for my own sake... the fact that I can see how good the others are, is just a bonus. It's not like I call anyone out for it, but if someone is doing really good on DPS(no matter what role), and don't mess up in any other aspect, I'll give them my commendation. It's hard for to look at the enmity bar and determine if their DPS is good or not, and even more difficult to determine if the tank is doing good DPS while being a good tank.

The point of this thread still stands though... 9/10 times, the tank/healer will get the commendation, for what reason I don't know exactly, but that is the case. It has nothing to do with what you said about having good awareness, dodging AoE etc, cause even a DPS that does all that, probably won't get many commendations. At least not based on that.

[Selli]

Btw, I don't use a parser to judge other players, I simply use it for my own sake... the fact that I can see how good the others are, is just a bonus. It's not like I call anyone out for it, but if someone is doing really good on DPS(no matter what role), and don't mess up in any other aspect, I'll give them my commendation.

You're really contradicting yourself saying you don't use your parser to judge and then say if they do good DPS you'll commend them... that's judging them via your parser. Which is incredibly taboo.

It's hard for to look at the enmity bar and determine if their DPS is good or not, and even more difficult to determine if the tank is doing good DPS while being a good tank.

Not really. If the boss/adds/mobs aren't smacking anyone but the tank and the tank is using CDs, the tank is fine. The DPS doing the most hate will generally rip off the tank (unless the healer isn't paying attention to enmity). So, yes, the DPS outputting higher DPS will be higher on the enmity list. Maybe not right off the bat in the fight, but at some point, they will be generally 1-3rd behind the tank and/or healer.

The point of this thread still stands though... 9/10 times, the tank/healer will get the commendation, for what reason I don't know exactly, but that is the case. It has nothing to do with what you said about having good awareness, dodging AoE etc, cause even a DPS that does all that, probably won't get many commendations. At least not based on that.

Tanks get commendations for not losing hate, popping cooldowns, and pulling big. Healers get commendations for keeping people alive, DPSing, and buffing party members appropriately. They are seen as the more demanding jobs and have to react to the party, while DPS just have to hit things 'til they die. That is why tanks and healers get so many commendations, because they have the most responsibility.

And what I said is personal opinion. Other players in this thread have stated that they don't commend if people don't talk, I personally don't care if no one says anything, I care about how they play. Not everyone is me, not everyone is going to judge party members like I do, that's why I stated that is what I look for when I give commendations to other players. Everyone commends (or doesn't commend) people based on their own personal reasons.

[Colorful]

You're really contradicting yourself saying you don't use your parser to judge and then say if they do good DPS you'll commend them... that's judging them via your parser. Which is incredibly taboo.

He's saying he doesn't use them to judge publicly, and call them out on poor performance. How's that taboo? If they're doing a great job, they get commended.

[Selli]

He's saying he doesn't use them to judge publicly, and call them out on poor performance. How's that taboo? If they're doing a great job, they get commended.

Parsers aren't even legal in the game and even though he's not calling people out on their DPS, he is personally judging their performance based on their DPS values, which is one of the reasons why they're not allowed.

[EDIT] You can have someone who is a fresh 50 who is doing barely (idfk i90 DPS values, lol, so lets go with) 300 DPS because they are in full i90. Does that mean they're a bad player? Not necessarily. So why judge them on a number value if they are playing correctly or making the effort to play correctly.

[Craiger]

He's saying he doesn't use them to judge publicly, and call them out on poor performance. How's that taboo? If they're doing a great job, they get commended.

Thank you. Parsing players being taboo is a weird view on things...

Calling players out on their DPS is a bad thing, but why would they care about it when they don't even know about it? You said that it's possible to judge DPS based on enmity bar anyways... so no difference.

We all have our own views on things like this I guess, but I just feel that we should encourage players that actually puts some effort in and do decent DPS.

I did a dungeon with someone from my FC the other day (don't run often with him), and if I just looked at the enmity bar (which I don't want to do), then it would be hard to differentiate his performance to the normal player you group up with. With a parser though, I could see that he did really good DPS actually... And I say actually, because he's more of a casual player, and he doesn't think his DPS is very good, but in reality, he has good DPS.

Is it wrong of me to acknowledge him for actually spending some time to improve? We need more casual players to do that IMO.

Parsers aren't even legal in the game and even though he's not calling people out on their DPS, he is personally judging their performance based on their DPS values, which is one of the reasons why they're not allowed.

[EDIT] You can have someone who is a fresh 50 who is doing barely (idfk i90 DPS values, lol, so lets go with) 300 DPS because they are in full i90. Does that mean they're a bad player? Not necessarily. So why judge them on a number value if they are playing correctly or making the effort to play correctly.

I really don't understand what you're on about... ofc I take their gear into consideration.

Also, have I ever mentioned judging players that doesn't get high numbers? There is only 1 commendation to give out for good performance. Me giving it to the one doing high DPS, doesn't mean I think the others are bad or anything... because I can't give anything to anyone else.

If you're a DPS, I'm only gonna give my commendation to a DPS, IF they get high DPS for their level of gear, because that's their only job, what else should I determine it by? dodging AoE? well, most players can do that. If you're new, I'm not saying you need to have any high DPS, but you also can't expect me to give them a commendation for not learning how to do it well yet. Not unless I actually know that someone is new and are doing good considering that. I don't go asking everyone how long they have played the game. That if anything, is taboo...

[Odett]

If you're not doing good DPS, you won't be high on the enmity table.

That's not true at all. Quelling Strikes can be used by BLMs, BRDs, SMNs, and MCHs. Enmity tables also don't show a SMN's overall DPS because their pet has an individual enmity table. A NIN can use Smoke Screen on you and your enmity will be reduced. A NIN can use Shadewalker and their enmity will be reduced. A Dragoon can use Elusive Jump and their enmity will take a massive instant cut. In other words, MNK is the sole DPS job whose job performance you can most accurately tell by looking at their enmity, and that's only without a NIN in the party.

It's funny, because in MMOs I've played where parsers are completely legal and the majority of the playerbase uses them, you can tell who's a great DPS by seeing how much they're parsing without being high on the threat list due to them using their threat-reducing abilities correctly. In this game, doing exactly what the best DPS would do in another game will often just make you look like a scrub in the eyes of an uninformed player.

[LunaHoshino]

That's not true at all. Quelling Strikes can be used by BLMs, BRDs, SMNs, and MCHs. Enmity tables also don't show a SMN's overall DPS because their pet has an individual enmity table. A NIN can use Smoke Screen on you and your enmity will be reduced. A NIN can use Shadewalker and their enmity will be reduced. A Dragoon can use Elusive Jump and their enmity will take a massive instant cut. In other words, MNK is the sole DPS job whose job performance you can most accurately tell by looking at their enmity, and that's only without a NIN in the party.

I can't speak for the other classes, but as a DRG main I tend to climb back up the aggro table very quickly after using Elusive Jump (assuming it's a boss fight and not trash that will die right away). There will be that massive instant enmity dump but they should be right back up near the top after just a little while because of their burst damage.