What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Gist]

There's nothing left to do to these people except mock them

I thought you were toxic when you changed your main class from Astrologian to Scholar and then continued participating in this ongoing discussion. You're ckc22. This proves it without a doubt.

[RichardButte]

I thought you were toxic when you changed your main class from Astrologian to Scholar and then continued participating in this ongoing discussion. You're ckc22. This proves it without a doubt.

The hell...?

He and i are on different sides of this argument. He's crying for a WHM buff. I've done everything I can to point out why a buff to WHM is entirely uncalled for.

I switched to SCH so people wouldn't say, "Oh, just another AST main who hasn't played anything else..." You can see my three classes if you click on my profile. Had I wanted to HIDE the fact that I have AST at cap, I wouldn't have listed it as one of my three classes.

This list is extremely misleading, especially to someone like me, who is currently still leveling and trying to decide between a WHM or an AST. Not only does it omit the tools that the AST has which the WHM lacks, but it misrepresents the comparison between the identical spells themselves: e.g., the HoTs are virtually identical in potency because the AST's has an initial potency, which is completely discounted in the comparison, and rather deceptively.

The AST has 5% more potency in Noct stance and 5% more speed in Diurnal stance. There is no boost to HoT potency in Dirunal. What you see is what you get.

And if you want to go look at the abilities AST has, go nuts:
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Astrologian

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

All of that is FACT, and no, I don't expect that to sway anyone because why should a silly little thing like "reality" taint anyone's perception of the situation?

[Gist]

The hell...?

He and i are on different sides of this argument. He's crying for a WHM buff. I've done everything I can to point out why a buff to WHM is entirely uncalled for.

I switched to SCH so people wouldn't say, "Oh, just another AST main who hasn't played anything else..." You can see my three classes if you click on my profile. Had I wanted to HIDE the fact that I have AST at cap, I wouldn't have listed it as one of my three classes.

Having all three classes leveled to 60 does not make you better than anyone else. You've been displaying toxic behavior towards several people in this forum in multiple threads, and you even openly admitted that you were toxic to players that you disagreed with, which is the exact same behavior (which may I remind you is against the general rules and reportable) as his, so please stop being toxic... I'm trying to ask nicely...

[PetiteMalFleur]

Having all three classes leveled to 60 does not make you better than anyone else. You've been displaying toxic behavior towards several people in this forum in multiple threads, and you even openly admitted that you were toxic to players that you disagreed with, which is the exact same behavior (which may I remind you is against the general rules and reportable) as his, so please stop being toxic... I'm trying to ask nicely...

LOLWUT??

I personally enjoy reading RichardButte's replies. I find them thoughtful, thorough, and engaging. On the other hand, your ad hominum attacks contribute nothing.

[Proteus6]

The AST has 5% more potency in Noct stance and 5% more speed in Diurnal stance. There is no boost to HoT potency in Dirunal. What you see is what you get.

And if you want to go look at the abilities AST has, go nuts:
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Astrologian

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

All of that is FACT, and no, I don't expect that to sway anyone because why should a silly little thing like "reality" taint anyone's perception of the situation?

But the AST's HoT actually comes with a front loaded heal (which the WHM does not), so just comparing the HoT portion is misleading. They are equivalent really, and your comparison doesn't account for it.

Does the WHM really have a better bubble? The AST's has both damage reduction and a linger HoT that does not require standing in the bubble. That seems more flexible from a raid perspective to me.

Does the WHM really have better mana recovery? The AST can add an additional 5 seconds onto their LA, no? I don't know if this balances out the recovery of Assize, but also in addition to Ewer? I wouldn't say it's a surefire win, and someone else in this thread clearly stated that in identical encounters, they had better mana management with their AST over their WHM.

I understand that the WHM does have better range and slightly better cooldowns. I am still trying to figure out which class to take into end game, but I think your list was clearly one-sided and not helpful, other than as a rhetorical bludgeon perhaps.

[Mutemutt]

But the AST's HoT actually comes with a front loaded heal (which the WHM does not), so just comparing the HoT portion is misleading. They are equivalent really, and your comparison doesn't account for it.

Does the WHM really have a better bubble? The AST's has both damage reduction and a linger HoT that does not require standing in the bubble. That seems more flexible from a raid perspective to me.

Does the WHM really have better mana recovery? The AST can add an additional 5 seconds onto their LA, no? I don't know if this balances out the recovery of Assize, but also in addition to Ewer? I wouldn't say it's a surefire win, and someone else in this thread clearly stated that in identical encounters, they had better mana management with their AST over their WHM.

I understand that the WHM does have better range and slightly better cooldowns. I am still trying to figure out which class to take into end game, but I think your list was clearly one-sided and not helpful, other than as a rhetorical bludgeon perhaps.

Asylum generally is more applicable and less of a hassle to use. Collective unconscious only works better when you get to milk the damage reduction portion but don't need to actually put up additional heals in the meantime (because the channeling ruins that of course), so basically just those once in a while single, big raid damage attacks really. At least that's what I think after using both of them.

Mp recovery wise, yeah, I'd put whm ahead there too. Even though ast spells are overall cheaper, whm just ends up recovering more mp I find ( in practice). You have to account for freecures, and occasionally cheaper medicas (not that you'd notice at the time) and if we really stretch it, that once in a blue moon moment where you get to make use of the half price cure 3. Plus, since assize gives back 10% of your mp pool, it'll continue to give higher returns as gear levels rise. You may point to ewer as ast's lucky break with mp, but whm also has those lucky mp breaks. Someone should math out a comparison of ewer vs freecure.

It may not be what some want to hear, but I think whm's thing is pretty much just having big heals. CD's real big, AoE''s real big, heals real big, everything real big.
Sorry, couldn't resist

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

I just wanted to clarify that Synastry's potency boost does affect HoTs. I've tested it several times.

[NorthernLadMSP]

I thought you were toxic when you changed your main class from Astrologian to Scholar and then continued participating in this ongoing discussion. You're ckc22. This proves it without a doubt.

No way. That person is beyond hope. He lies on the forum (quite literally as I called him out on something, he lied, and then I went and found proof of what I had stated).

Richard seems like a good guy to me, and absolutely not the same person as ckc22.