Lets Talk About UNDERCUTTERS!!!!

[Preypacer]

What you're asking is for everyone to agree to keep prices needlessly inflated so you don't lose money. That's terrible

Not at all.

When you look at the sales history, and the prices are hovering at or around a pretty consistent price (+/- some small %), it's a pretty good indication that that's a price people are able and willing to pay... because they're paying it, consistently, over a long period of time.

Therefor, it's absolutely ridiculous, and pointless, for someone to come along and say "Oh... according to the sales history, people have been paying around (for example) 2k each for this, for at least the past day or so... I'm gonna list mine for 500 each to make sure I sell first!"

That's just an impatient player, with extreme short-sightedness, shooting themselves in the foot, and losing potentially many thousands of gil... all because they "want to sell theirs first!". They could have sold theirs for, say, 50 gil less than the next highest person... would still sell theirs faster than others, wouldn't be needlessly costing themselves thousands of gil, and wouldn't be fudging up the market.

Because, while this wouldn't be a problem if it was just one or two people occasionally doing this, with things returning to the "norm" afterward... that's not what happens.

What happens is, it seems to set off a chain-reaction. What was once a stable, steady price, becomes a blind race of impatient stupidity to the bottom.

Somehow, people see a listing for, say around 2k each, but then see someone selling theirs for 500 each. Instead of thinking, "well, this guy is listing theirs for 500 each, but I can see the sales history showing it's been moving nicely at around 2k each.. So I'm going to list mine for 1990 each. Why lose out on almost 1500 gil by competing with 500 gil guy?", they think "Oh! I have to compete with that 500 guy! I'm gonna list mine for 400!" Then, someone else comes along and sees the 400, thinks "Oh! I have to list mine for 300!" 500 guy comes back, sees what happened, thinks, "Oh hell no!" and lists theirs for 150 each.

So, now you have items that have proven to move consistently for around 2k, being brought down to absurd amounts - not because "it wasn't worth 2k to begin with" (the market history proves otherwise), but because of the impatience and short-sightedness of some players.

I've long said that MMO players are their own worst enemies. They will - consistently, and predictably - make decisions that benefit them "right now" (they sell and get their gil faster), without ever thinking of the longer term, or even immediate consequences (losing out on a lot of gil, for no good reason). This is a perfect example of that.

Personally, I'd like to see price listings handled like they are/were in XI. You can see the price history - what people have paid for the item, but you can not see what people are selling them for currently. There was still under-cutting, but it was far less prevalent, and far more reasonable. Prices adjusted in response to supply and demand, and not by huge, ridiculous jumps in price for no reason.

I know people won't agree with that, but it made for a far more stable market in XI. XIV's is the worst, most unstable and erratic market I've seen in any MMO, ever.

Anyway.. my two gil.

[randysquirrel]

^

Can't really agree.
If this was an accurate reflection surely the next buyer would come along and be like "hey these are worth 2,000 gil and these people are selling for 150!!" and buy them all. and then selling would resume at 2,000.

If an item genuinely is worth that price, then you need to ignore the undercutters and wait it out, and in time all the items being undersold will indeed sell, and then yours too will sell at 2000 each

[Negafox]

The prices on the marketboard are very erratic. Sometimes, you can find a slew of a level 8 NQ crafting item selling for 50K one day and 100 gil the next. Or even more fun when somebody undercuts you by a factor of ten and constantly farming stacks of an item. Example, everybody has been selling Chocobo Feathers for 2000 gil each, and then one day somebody comes around selling dozens of 99 stack for 200 gil each, and constantly farming feathers to flooding the MB with them. Sure -- you *could* buy them out, but the person's persistence with flooding the market *and* cheaply destroys the market for a while.

[xLucia]

Can't really agree.
If this was an accurate reflection surely the next buyer would come along and be like "hey these are worth 2,000 gil and these people are selling for 150!!" and buy them all. and then selling would resume at 2,000

People on my server actually do this already. If the prices are massively under "the norm" there are people out there that buy those items out to keep the prices high.

[Niwashi]

The time I find undercutting ridiculous is when someone forgets to set a price, so it goes up at the rate an NPC vendor would give you, and then people keep trying to undercut that, offering their items for less than what they could get from any NPC.

[randysquirrel]

People on my server actually do this already. If the prices are massively under "the norm" there are people out there that buy those items out to keep the prices high.

That is my point. If the situation the guy I quoted was true, and people were massively underpricing something, they would be bought out, and the item would quickly return to the usual price.

But if it is not actually an undercut, the lower priced items don't sell either, and the original price was just inflated

[Radacci]

snip

i dont care about gil, and i love undercutting people, to make you want to stop selling crap as if it was diamonds.
so lets work together, and don't sell materia for 1mil, cause ppl want it for relic.

also, it's hysterical that crafters can charge for their services, while ppl who sell raid/EX clears, are the scum of the earth.
crafters can charge, cause it was oooh so difficult to cap (in one day) while DoW/M can't cause its so easy to cap, and doesn't take any effort to gear up (except it took worlds best raid teams, to clear Alex-Savage, a month)
maybe i should charge people, for helping them in PF, cause they are wasting my time otherwise - time is money.

[Arabian_Wolf]

Main reason I made enough gil to buy me a personal large house (my own mansion) was those acute undercutters, as I have 0 crafting done to make gil, no crafter at lvl50 by then and still now.

I thank them undercutters from the bottom of my hearts, please continue your charity work.

[CrystalRainbow]

Free market, Set value is what it sell to NPC for. Anything more then that isn't undercutting.

[LineageRazor]

Somehow, people see a listing for, say around 2k each, but then see someone selling theirs for 500 each. Instead of thinking, "well, this guy is listing theirs for 500 each, but I can see the sales history showing it's been moving nicely at around 2k each.. So I'm going to list mine for 1990 each. Why lose out on almost 1500 gil by competing with 500 gil guy?", they think "Oh! I have to compete with that 500 guy! I'm gonna list mine for 400!" Then, someone else comes along and sees the 400, thinks "Oh! I have to list mine for 300!" 500 guy comes back, sees what happened, thinks, "Oh hell no!" and lists theirs for 150 each.

If the product continues to sell at 150, then guess what the product was actually worth at that rate of supply and demand? 150 gil. The folks coasting by for a while at 2000 gil were getting a free ride; their product wasn't worth that much, but was coasting along on inertia waiting for someone to set a price that more properly aligned with the current demand.

Someone did so. Their product sold. Someone else did so. Their product sold. It's no surprise this started a cascade - it was overpriced before. Now all the poor sellers who continue to try to sell at the inflated price are left in the cold, because they cling to a false illusion as to what the product is actually worth. A smart seller will recognise the shift, and reprice accordingly, not complain about undercutters.

If the product was truly worth 2000 gil, then the flood of folks selling for 150 would have run out of product, and the prices would have readjusted back to 2000. They didn't, so 150 is the proper value for that item.