What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Cedane]

It's not about the "buffing" many already stated this, its how the buffs were done - copy pasta sch/whm skills thats is the path of least resistance and its not ok.

But why?

It was advertised from the beginning that it was going to share both with a bit of buffing in the cards since they advertised it. If it isn't fair now, why didn't you guys think it was fair -then-?

In the end, I think you guys are being overly dramatic about this. If I want to be a pure healer with the most options to heal? I will be a White Mage which is what I enjoy playing the most. If I get bored and want to use barriers and have a pet to heal? I've got Scholar. If I want to just play with cards, do a little bit of both and change how I play based on which other healer is in the party with me? I'll be an Astrologian. How they play is a bit different in that regard, but can they heal and keep everyone alive in savage Alexander?

If the answer is yes, then the buff was necessary. and I welcome the change. It was really needed, and it doesn't -really- effect anyone.

[Kosmos992k]

But as I and many others have already stated countless times, whm still has it's identity. It's still the pure healer of the game, with the strongest raid healing output and best healing toolkit. Nothing changed that. I don't know how many times this needs to be stated.

I don't know how many times. But since you've completely avoided the fact that I wasn't talking about end-game, I guess it will be at least once more.

How a job plays out in end-game, what it's numbers are, may be of great interest to you and raiders/end-gamers in general, but it's not to me. What is interesting to me is how the role looks and feels during mainstream story content, NOT end-game content.

[SenzorialBoundries]

But why?

It was advertised from the beginning that it was going to share both with a bit of buffing in the cards since they advertised it. If it isn't fair now, why didn't you guys think it was fair -then-?

that is the problem ast needs a rework the most otherwise you can never balance a hybrid class without making it outshine the original classes it was based off, only solution without a rework is to make the cards very wanted and hot.

[Yorumi]

But could that work in practice? It sounds good on paper but would that work in the long run? We're not programmers. We're players.

Either way, I think I'd prefer the changes the way they are now. I don't want to be unique. I want to heal at my best, really. Even with alternatives, they... don't sound good to what we have now. No offense or anything.

Other games have generally managed to have multiple healers who heal differently but overall accomplish the goal of healing a party. You still heal at your best you just accomplish the overall healing in different ways. That's what makes classes interesting and not just reskins. Reskinning is the easy way to balance, but it makes the game dull. It's fun when you can switch classes and have a totally different experience rather than doing the same thing with a different coat of paint.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

So the other dead horse got brought up again: Design philosophy

Ok, so let's assume the following Scenario:
White mage is king/queen of HPS
Scholar brings mitigation and DPS on the table
And Astrologian can't do either up to par

That would mean the cards must have significant effect for it to compensate for the "lack of healing potency" (as being complained about over and over and over and over and over again the past month or so). Now what would happen if their cards would actually increase average raid DPS by, let's say, 5% (5% total raid DPS including a 5% bonus on their own)?

White Mage would be in an even worse position. Simply to how mechanic and DPS driven the raid encounters are. If the party isn't bleeding to death or being blown up, it would be DPS checks that's causing the wipes. Considering that we're technically still undergeared for the encounter and White Mage can't mitigate as well as Scholar and can't bring enough DPS on the table to bridge the 5% bonus an Astrologian would bring.

If it's not DPS contribution, but mitigation (as mentioned earlier), Scholars would be out of a job. This would simply shift the problem to another source.

While I do agree that the potency boost changes is the easiest way to get out of things and frankly, I don't like it. But it's also the least "destructive" or "balance breaking", rather than flat out buffing the cards in a manner that no party can afford to miss out on.

[Cedane]

that is the problem ast needs a rework the most otherwise you can never balance a hybrid class without making it outshine the original classes it was based off, only solution without a rework is to make the cards very wanted and hot.

Do you play an Astrologian? I've been playing it with the changes. I'm not struggling in speed runs anymore and not struggling in huge boss fights anymore. They needed this buff.

[Cedane]

White Mage would be in an even worse position. Simply to how mechanic and DPS driven the raid encounters are. If the party isn't bleeding to death or being blown up, it would be DPS checks that's causing the wipes. Considering that we're technically still undergeared for the encounter and White Mage can't mitigate as well as Scholar and can't bring enough DPS on the table to bridge the 5% bonus an Astrologian would bring.

If it's not DPS contribution, but mitigation (as mentioned earlier), Scholars would be out of a job. This would simply shift the problem to another source.

While I do agree that the potency boost changes is the easiest way to get out of things and frankly, I don't like it. But it's also the least "destructive" or "balance breaking", rather than flat out buffing the cards in a manner that no party can afford to miss out on.

Exactly. This is why I'm pretty cool with the changes. If they did it with the cards, WHM would get the boot overrall in that scenario. SCH/AST would be the mandatory. It would have been a horrific shift for everyone.

But setting it to strengthening the barriers, heal potency is equal to all and least some minor adjustments to the cards, this was the best scenario for everyone involved. But people seem to overlook or even ignore this.

[Risvertasashi]

WHM can't do crap about it, it's DPS is roughly equal to a AST doing normal uncarded DPS on single target

--

Here's the question I pose to people who think there's no identity crisis.... and I want you to take a moment to imagine this scenario before making a gut reply to it.

Scenario 1:
Patch 3.1 hits and they decide they're going to give both WHM and AST a Selene Fairy and tack on some of the basic pet skills to the class Cooldowns. SCH's get a small potency buff and everyone remains at the same "Balanced" healing level as before; except now all healers have a fairy.
Do you still feel special playing as a Scholar? You're still slightly "better" with your fairy, but now everyone has one.

See where WHM is coming from on this?

You don't even need to go that far. Take a look at my thread asking for Supervirus to be rolled into Virus to see the SCH defense brigade out in force.

[Raso]

I don't know how many times. But since you've completely avoided the fact that I wasn't talking about end-game, I guess it will be at least once more.

How a job plays out in end-game, what it's numbers are, may be of great interest to you and raiders/end-gamers in general, but it's not to me. What is interesting to me is how the role looks and feels during mainstream story content, NOT end-game content.

Eh? Umm base healing and DPS between WHM and AST is exactly the same with most stuff gotten on the same levels with the exception of AST's ED is learned at level 4 and WHM's tetra is learned at 60 and Gravity is learned at 52 instead of 50 thus can't be used in 50 hard dungeons.

And I mean exactly the same, you get good at a WHM to 60 you can use all the same keybinds for AST's equivalent spells perfectly.

[Coltvoyance]

Here's the question I pose to people who think there's no identity crisis.... and I want you to take a moment to imagine this scenario before making a gut reply to it.

Scenario 1:
Patch 3.1 hits and they decide they're going to give both WHM and AST a Selene Fairy and tack on some of the basic pet skills to the class Cooldowns. SCH's get a small potency buff and everyone remains at the same "Balanced" healing level as before; except now all healers have a fairy.
Do you still feel special playing as a Scholar? You're still slightly "better" with your fairy, but now everyone has one.

Scenario 2:
SE decides they made a huge mistake with implementing Cards into the game. The RNG is horrid and they cant get it right so they completely remove Cards from AST and put 2 extra instant heals in their place. SE says AST is now purely about its Sects and no longer about cards.
Does AST still seem appealing to you even though you cant play Triple Triad while you fight? You got some new heals! But no cards. Is it still fun?

See where WHM is coming from on this?