How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Greyfrost]

is 4th combo always a dps increase or only if you hit the positional?
if geirskogul didnt exist, is it still a dps increase?

They're easily the 2nd highest potency if you hit the positionals right after Full Thrust.

I'd take that anytime. Just don't miss on the positionals EVERY SINGLE TIME.

A simple equation would be,

HT > ID > Dis > BotD > CT > 4th > Phle > True > Vorpal > Full > 4th = 228 potency over 10 GCDs

Compare it with

HT > ID > Dis > CT > Phle > True > Vorpal > Full = 212.5 potency over 8 GCDs

This is not counting that they're further buffed with BFB and HT, I'm too lazy to do it.

[Dervy]

In 12GCDs, TTT4 x3 > TTT x4

150 + 200 + 360 = 710 * 4 = 2840
150 + 200 + 360 + 290 = 1000 * 3 = 3000

12 * 2.4 = 28.8

2840 / 28.8 = 98.61111111111111
3000 / 28.8 = 104.1666666666667

That's hitting all positionals. Hitting only 1/2 of your positionals (we can average this down to 245 Potency per 4th)

150 + 200 + 360 + 245 = 955 * 3 = 2865 / 28.8 = 99.47916666666667.

So hitting 50% of your positionals is only a 0.8 PPS increase over TTT, so yes, keeping BotD up is crucial. But as I said, it's all situational.

In 6 GCDs:

TTT X2 = 150 + 200 + 360 = 1420
TTT4 TT = 150 + 200 + 360 + 290 + 150 + 200 = 1350
ID TTT4 = 180 + 200 + ((150 + 200 + 360 + 290)*1.1) = 1480

So if your Target is alive for 6GCDs, then ID TTT4 is the quickest way, hands down, to burn it down.

For 7 GCDs:
4*2.4 = 9.6 / 3 = 3.2
IDC TTT4 = 180 + 200 + ((250 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 290)*1.1) + (35 * 3.2) = 1867
TTT TTT4 = ((150 + 200 + 360) * 2) +290 = 1710
ID TTT4 T = 180 + 200 + ((150+200+360+290 + 150)*1.1) = 1645

So in 7 GCDs, IDC TTT4 is best.

But, none of this really, takes into consideration BOTD uptime nor Geirskogul. IDC TTT4 is risky and limits a lot of Geirskogul use.

[Jonnycbad]

Do you guys even bother trying to hit positionals in expert on small mobs in a pack? I can't even see their rings because the radius is less than half of my character size for some of them. Neverreap is the most annoying to hit positionals, with like 20 mobs and water pillars and tornados its just ughhh. I just f***-it on fodder and hit positionals on boss because strafing around and trying to see the ring in a pack of 9 mobs when the ring is half the size of my character, its just frustrating. With the potency increase on failed positional 4th's, i care even less on big pulls, because holding your proc and trying to find the seeet spot can be a dps loss than if you just keep the gcd going. Hopefully soon we will outgear neverreap and we can just holy/doom spike packs down in seconds like Satasha HM at i130.

[spelley]

snippity snap

I usually do try to keep positionals going for Expert small mob packs. A good tip is to turn off other player's effects and angle the camera really high so you are looking almost straight down on small packs. It helps. I just don't stress too much about holding positionals. Also, for Neverreap you can AOE certain packs pretty efficiently, depending on if the other DPS is AOEing. I usually single-target down the moths at the beginning pulls, then go into AOE spam until low on TP, finish off with single target. Bees (+Tree) and Giraffes are single target while the rest can be AOE'd usually.

[Jonnycbad]

I suppose, but at that point I feel like it's "taking away" from the game. I always hated reducing or eliminating things for better gameplay but I guess I'll just learn to deal :/

[JackFross]

But, none of this really, takes into consideration BOTD uptime nor Geirskogul. IDC TTT4 is risky and limits a lot of Geirskogul use.

Wouldn't IDC4 TTT be the exact same potency, though, with less risk, assuming you know it'll last that seventh gcd?


Also, I had another question. I just was taking a second glance at the B4B part of the OP and was curious. Popping B4B immediately after Chaos Thrust (or the following 4th hit, usually) causes it to miss the next Chaos Thrust, doesn't it? Is that really better than holding it to make sure it catches CT? I see the numbers there, and I don't doubt them, it's just blowing my mind right now is all. Intuitively, it feels like I'd wanna hit CT under B4B every time. Is this just a symptom of the slightly reduced potency on CT due to clipping it in the new rotation? Just curious if there's any like... non-math way of explaining why it's actually a pps loss to hold that B4B.

[spelley]

I suppose, but at that point I feel like it's "taking away" from the game. I always hated reducing or eliminating things for better gameplay but I guess I'll just learn to deal :/

I'd try to just move the camera really vertical then first to see if that helps I personally am using a potato as a computer so I had to turn off other player effects because I like actually being able to play the game as a video game and not a really fancy low framerate flip book XD

[Dervy]

Wouldn't IDC4 TTT be the exact same potency, though, with less risk, assuming you know it'll last that seventh gcd?

Also, I had another question. I just was taking a second glance at the B4B part of the OP and was curious. Popping B4B immediately after Chaos Thrust (or the following 4th hit, usually) causes it to miss the next Chaos Thrust, doesn't it? Is that really better than holding it to make sure it catches CT? I see the numbers there, and I don't doubt them, it's just blowing my mind right now is all. Intuitively, it feels like I'd wanna hit CT under B4B every time. Is this just a symptom of the slightly reduced potency on CT due to clipping it in the new rotation? Just curious if there's any like... non-math way of explaining why it's actually a pps loss to hold that B4B.

Yup, same potency. You end up in the same situation though, as your skills are ordered as: TTT -> HT -> IDC4, if that makes sense. You need to refresh HT. It's still going to be a sequence of "3", then "4" when you're switching between adds which last 7 GCDs. It still carries the same risk. But yeah, IDC4 TTT is just as good as IDC TTT4.

And yeah, you're right. It's the reason why holding BFB to be used on the "4th" after CT is the lowest PPS. But holding it 1 GCD in Infinite-Duration in a vacuum still ends up being less Potency. Usually, due to latency and other things, a BFB usually comes up, available on that "4th" skill, but activating it will clip your GCD. In which case, I usually hold it for the Phlebotomize.

[ErzaScarlet77]

hows drg numbers after mnk buffs?
poor NINs tho...

[Dervy]

MNK > DRG > NIN.