EC explains how the current progression system is flawed

[Kitano123]

EC explains how the current progression system is flawed

It seems to say the exact opposite. In the first minute of the video they explain that developers have to impliment a grind/gate otherwise players will burn through all current content and get bored.

The rest of the video doesnt say anything other than players need more mechanics/content to stop them getting bored, which isnt much of a revelation.

It still remains that grinds/gates exist because there isnt an endless stream of content being created at the same pace that players can go through it.

[Omskahn]

It seems to say the exact opposite. In the first minute of the video they explain that developers have to impliment a grind/gate otherwise players will burn through all current content and get bored.

The rest of the video doesnt say anything other than players need more mechanics/content to stop them getting bored, which isnt much of a revelation.

It still remains that grinds/gates exist because there isnt an endless stream of content being created at the same pace that players can go through it.

Yea dude, but pay attention to what they say directly before that. Progression shouldn't be used as a tool to train the players to keep coming back, or not as a means to add more play hours without actually adding content.

Like you said, there does need to be so gating so that people dont burn through it. But at the same time it shouldn't be there to artificially extend the life of content - which is what SE is doing with the current endgame, and why I decided to start this thread.

There needs to be a happy medium between gating to hold players back, and gating to simply extend play time, and right now I think SE is too far into the latter.

[Kitano123]

Yea dude, but pay attention to what they say directly before that. Progression shouldn't be used as a tool to train the players to keep coming back, or not as a means to add more play hours without actually adding content.

Like you said, there does need to be so gating so that people dont burn through it. But at the same time it shouldn't be there to artificially extend the life of content - which is what SE is doing with the current endgame, and why I decided to start this thread.

There needs to be a happy medium between gating to hold players back, and gating to simply extend play time, and right now I think SE is too far into the latter.

You're contradicting yourself. You agree that content has to be gated, but not for the purpose of extending playtime which is the entire reason for the gate to exist.

[Omskahn]

You're contradicting yourself.

No, I'm really not. What i'm saying in the clearest way I can convey this is that gating is a tool with a purpose, that can be 'abused' to make up for short comings. Think of the degree of gating as having an intensity dial instead of like binary switches and you'll see what i'm getting at. You have to find the sweet spot between it serving its purpose and using it as a crutch.

Gating isn't inherently bad. Using it poorly, which I think SE is right now with endgame, is.

[Dyvid]

No, I'm really not. What i'm saying in the clearest way I can convey this is that gating is a tool with a purpose, that can be 'abused' to make up for short comings. Think of the degree of gating as having an intensity dial instead of like binary switches and you'll see what i'm getting at. You have to find the sweet spot between it serving its purpose and using it as a crutch.

Gating isn't inherently bad. Using it poorly, which I think SE is right now with endgame, is.

Okay, the video you posted was about poor progression mechanics that trick players into keep playing like so many mobile games and DLC. What you are talking about is daily and weekly caps that keeps players from burning through content quickly. These gated issue normally last on new content until the next update is released then removed to allow players to catch up. It's not a perfect system but by no means a bad system. The alternative would be to slow the process down so much that players who don't / can't run content 24/7 would be so frustrated in the grind, they would just out right quit.

[Fendred]

Okay, the video you posted was about poor progression mechanics that trick players into keep playing like so many mobile games and DLC. What you are talking about is daily and weekly caps that keeps players from burning through content quickly. These gated issue normally last on new content until the next update is released then removed to allow players to catch up. It's not a perfect system but by no means a bad system. The alternative would be to slow the process down so much that players who don't / can't run content 24/7 would be so frustrated in the grind, they would just out right quit.

Sometimes why someone is saying something is more important than what is being said. The OP brings up lockouts because when all you have is a skinner box with no strategic depth, caps and lockouts suggest the developers actually believe people are going to have fun rerunning the same static content over and over again. This also eludes to other issues, like the design of the dungeons which promote racing to the finish, something terribly disconcerting when you are brand new to the dungeon in question. Anyway, the OP feels the end game needs something more to it than what is currently there. I hardly see a reason to disagree. What is there to disagree with?

[Malevicton]

Anyway, the OP feels the end game needs something more to it than what is currently there. I hardly see a reason to disagree.

"Things in general should be some amount better than they currently are in some way or other" is ambiguous to the point of meaninglessness. Of course nobody's gonna disagree with things being made better, but that's not actually a suggestion.

[Omskahn]

Okay, the video you posted was about poor progression mechanics that trick players into keep playing like so many mobile games and DLC. What you are talking about is daily and weekly caps that keeps players from burning through content quickly. These gated issue normally last on new content until the next update is released then removed to allow players to catch up. It's not a perfect system but by no means a bad system. The alternative would be to slow the process down so much that players who don't / can't run content 24/7 would be so frustrated in the grind, they would just out right quit.

I agree that the system isn't whats bad. The lack of lasting content that the gating system serves to lengthen is the problem.You are wrong though in that the only alternative to the current progress management, has to be just slowing down progress without hard stops.

The current end-game right now is essentially alex Nm and alex savage. Each floor can take a competent group anywhere from 15-25 mins to complete, then hope for drops at the end. If you do get a drop, then you cant get another piece until the next week. On top of this, the drop isn't an actual piece of gear, but instead a token that you need multiples of to be able to actually turn in for gear. This is essentially a a system that gates another system to extend gameplay since the content itself is unable to do so.

Without any gating whatsoever (which I don't think should happen) a person could completely gear up from Alex NM in less than one day. With the current multi-tiered gating system however, it will take you over month, minimum, to do so.

Reaching the point of why I'm saying all this now. I am not saying SE has to come up with so much content that they wouldn't have to gate at all, that's impossible. I'm not even saying "Things in general should be some amount better than they currently are in some way or other". What I am saying is that if SE is going to have their end-game be relegated to something like alex that has to be so heavily gated because it really isn't that much, then they need to design it with better, even just varied, gating systems so it has some innate longevity besides grabbing players by the scruff of our necks and saying "nope, no more progress for you this week."

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

The current end-game right now is essentially alex Nm and alex savage. Each floor can take a competent group anywhere from 15-25 mins to complete, then hope for drops at the end. If you do get a drop, then you cant get another piece until the next week.

Yep I would argue Alex normal takes roughly 10 min to finish, unless your scrubbing it up and wiping. Couple this with the super high 400% drop rate, each turn drops 4 pieces guaranteed. You have roughly 2 hours of gameplay. The cap itself isn't great, but hitting the cap in 2 hours makes it cringeworthy. We are dangerously close to WoW's garrison system here, where there just isn't any real reason to log on in between patches, unless you want to do Savage. Hopefully 3.1 fixes this some, with the airship content and relic weapon.

Maybe giving people a reason to want to craft would help as well. Right now crafting is the only reason I log on at all anymore.

[Dyvid]

snip

2.XX end game Coil / Savage, EX, Hard Dungeons, CT, varies other content that was added with at level cap. 3.XX end game content is elite dungeons, EX Trials, Alex / Savage, Void Ark, and whatever SE adds that requires level 60. So no, End Game isn't just Alex, just a limit people placed on themselves.

As for Alex loot system, it is a response to the community who complained about random gear drops from Crystal Tower where players had to run it many many times to get the right drop. I believe it's a little better than CT because I have more Alex gear in three weeks than I would have in Crystal Tower. But if you have a better way to remove gating but keep players actively playing without burning through content feel free to post it because I don't. I know without gating progression, people would spam everything in a week then stop playing and start complaining about lack of content. If you make it so mind numbing slow other players would be so overwhelmed they would just stop because they just can't catch up.

SE isn't perfect but almost found a good balance between content patch update and the amount of time it takes to finish personal goals of current content. You can almost set your watch to the "I'm bored" complaint threads on the forums and the release of a new update.