PLD/DRK Crossclasses

[fm_fenrir]

Well the OT role is entirely the reason you'd have BFB. It would give Paladins and Dark Knights a small boost in Burst DPS when they're able to DPS safely without being mauled, just to give them that small nudge towards Warriors who are currently the defacto OT of choice in pretty much every situation. It's only a wipe waiting to happen if the tank is bad and presses it at the wrong time, and I don't think you can restrict a skill from a class based on that.

Unfortunately, you have to balance the game around bads when you consider the tank role, because a tank that decides he wants to burn B4B as MT is going to wreck a run by instantly disintegrating and taking the healers with him. Yes, good/smart tanks will use B4B appropriately, but think about how many awful DRKs there were, and now imagine they had B4B on top of that.

MORE DPS! WAIT WHY AM I DEAD? - every tank forum thread after making B4B available to DRK and PLD

[Brannigan]

Unfortunately, you have to balance the game around bads when you consider the tank role

No you don't. Healers can screw up just as badly with bad Cleric Stance usage. Tanks who die instantly when they use Blood for Blood would eventually figure out how to read their tooltips or be told by someone who can. Not that it matters since they're really unlikely to change what classes paladin or dark knight draw from. The ultimate prize for cross class would really be rogue, though. Shade Shift, Goad, and (for paladin) Death Blossom would be ridiculous.

However, I think rather than changing the classes that are drawn from, I think either changing the offered skills or altering the skills that are offered is more likely. A 30 second Fracture would help both paladin and dark knight, and I could see them enabling Esuna for use by paladin as well. However, outside of Stoneskin, paladin's cross class has always been pretty garbage. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[RapBreon]

Well tbh I'm fine with them keeping Conjuror as crossclass so we can keep Stoneskin (I like using it occasionally for increasing EHP on tankbusters still), and replace Marauder with Lancer for Paladin.

We'd lose Bloodbath, Foresight and Mercy Stroke, and gain Invigorate, Keen Flurry, Feint and Blood for Blood. I'd definitely find these more impactful.

I dont think they can simply adjust our TP costs because there's a uniformity across all classes (openers cost 70, combos cost 60, thrown stuff and AOE tends to cost 120). Maybe Shield Swipe being lowered still and increased in potency/threat so it isnt a loss to use it is a good start, but just having Invigorate would solve them in one swoop.

MNKs and NINs typically have 10 less TP tacked onto all (most?) of their skills to compensate for their deceased global. Additionally, some moves (usually ones that provide buffs/debuffs) cost 10 TP more despite being part of a combo. So the pattern is subject to its own exceptions anyway. It would be fairly simple for Square to adjust them this way. I imagine (I'm no programmer) it would be way less work than reassigning a different cross-class to two classes.

Not only does your solution make thematically no sense in the case of the PLD (which is important, at least to me), I can only imagine the uproar some tanks would make because they never bothered to level lancer (because there was no need). You may solve the TP issues in one fell swoop, but you'd create two more (that I can think of)...because you want to maintain some largely irrelevant pattern people barely notice (nor have any investment in - exceptions withstanding). Not feeling it. Don't get me wrong, I envy your creativity and thought put into the problem. But ultimately it's a simple problem with far easier ways to solve it.

Edit: Oh yeah, then WARs would cry about not being able to get BFB (or Invig cause overpower). Then they'll get it because we must acquiesce to our OCD patternlords. Then watch as WARs actually outdps BRDs and MCHs for realsies.

[Khalithar]

To be completely straight forward, Paladin's problem with Conjurer isn't the Conjurer class, but what is offered to Paladins. It strikes me as rather odd that Paladin doesn't have access to Aero, Repose, and maybe Esuna in place of Cure and Raise, since those spells would offer a Paladin a secondary DoT, crowd control, and a dispel option.

Agree with Repose and Esuna, not so sure about Aero but it could be worth casting when you're running out of an AoE.

[PogueX]

Does anyone know if Riot blade can be used as a cross ability and if so is it useful for DRK since can give MP?

[MiniPrinny]

Agree with Repose and Esuna, not so sure about Aero but it could be worth casting when you're running out of an AoE.

It really was just a "well, it's better than what they have now" choice. Also, it has struck me as odd since 3.0 came out that Paladin has no magical damage in their kit, while it's not something the Job is known for, it is a powerful option for enemies who are immune (or greatly resistant) to physical damage.

[Kumori_Kumo]

I'm indifferent on the larger point, but bad players are no reason to restrict abilities. Warrior has Raw Intuition, which will kill you WAY faster than B4B if you're stupid, yet we get that. There's really no argument there.

[Phoenicia]

I'm indifferent on the larger point, but bad players are no reason to restrict abilities. Warrior has Raw Intuition, which will kill you WAY faster than B4B if you're stupid, yet we get that. There's really no argument there.

lol, I just imagined some bad WAR popping B4B and RI and getting rekt from 1 flank crit.

[rawker]

I'd rather cross thm on my pld for that swiftcast and surecast, though.

[Erit]

Does anyone know if Riot blade can be used as a cross ability and if so is it useful for DRK since can give MP?

It cannot; even if it could, you lack Fast Blade to trigger the combo, and so you end up in the same situation where Savage Blade is: "Why is this here again?"

Besides that, Dark Knights have two Syphon Strike combos and no real reason to use any non-Syphon combo after level 38. The only times a Dark Knight should be out of mana are when they do something wrong, when chain-stuns come out just as they activate Blood Price (such as White Mages against the last wave of enemies before Nidhogg), or when the raid forgets how to manage emnity and everyone rips for their efforts.