For Yoshi P - A Letter TO The Producer (with video) - TAINT Rainbow Parade 2015

[Fenwick]

But back on topic, people need to be judged by their personality and who they are and not their preference

I absolutely agree, people shouldn't be judged by their preference, unfortunately it happened for a long time and still happens - regardless of personality. Preference and/or gender identity is the subject matter of these parades, if you want to really get to know the people and who they are, approach them and ask and they will likely be open to telling you.

If you aren't trying to get to know someone, you can't blame them for that.

[Nyalia]

Massive text block in the box, it got kinda big and it feels odd talking about it in this topic or on these forums.

Thank you very much for posting this. And yes, it is weird to talk about this topic on these forums, but I feel like that's because it rarely happens. But it is relevant to the game, it is on topic, and it is a thing that I feel is worth discussing. I feel like it's hard for people to understand where you or I are coming from if all they see are replies like many on this thread, which essentially state that games shouldn't represent minorities or people with gender expressions/sexual preferences that differ from what their used to seeing in their own lives. "Everyone's the same, so we shouldn't have representation for people like you, and wanting to be represented in a game like everyone else is a cry for attention" is a position I really don't understand. (Also bizarre: "But it's a GAME! You shouldn't be represented in a GAME! I don't want to think about people like you when I'm playing a GAME!") But anyway.

Response in spoiler tags for similar reasons:

I apologize for making some generalizations. It's a bad habit. Regarding the transpeople in Japan, that was something I should have researched before stating. It came from a conversation I had with a friend I have who lives in Japan who happens to be trans. She tells me that in all the meetups she goes to with the local trans society, the transmen far outnumber the transwomen, and have a much harder time in Japanese culture. She told me that her experience/observation is that transwomen are, relatively speaking, accepted to some degree, and transmen are very much not. But, that's just one woman's perspective and experience and observation in one region of the country, and not necessarily representative of the rest of the country.

I also apologize for projecting where I did so, and for using terminology as I think of it and not acknowledging that words have other meanings for other people. Everyone's narrative and experience is different (and valid). I don't want my physical struggles to be reflected by my character in a game - I just want to be accepted however I choose to present myself without any fuss. The physical transition has been very difficult for me, but the social transition wasn't, and an option to magically and instantly skip all that is, for me, an exciting one. But, that doesn't mean that's true for everyone (and that's okay). When I use the word "transition" I'm referring specifically to going from a gender expression and identity you are uncomfortable with to a gender expression and identity you are comfortable with. Yes, many things will never finish changing, but at some point, they will be where I want them to be (and some already are). But again, my experience is not your experience.

What I said about being non-binary, I meant, well, identity and expression are not the same thing. One is how you see yourself, the other is how others see you. Or at least, that's how I'm using those terms (I'm sure there are other definitions of them). People seeing me as non-binary doesn't make me non-binary any more than people seeing me as male makes me male. I do want to be seen and treated like any other woman. I don't want special attention drawn to myself relative to other women due to my past gender expression. And sure, I'll never be physically identical to the average ciswoman, but few ciswomen are... But again, my preferences and experiences/narrative aren't necessarily representative of others, and I shouldn't say things as if they are. And I wasn't saying it was okay that the game doesn't have support for people who want to express explicitly non-binary. I was just trying to make the point that, for some of us (or at least one of us), fantasia is enough and what we're (I'm) looking for. It'd be nice if it was cannon though - you're right about that =\


And yeah, you're right about the boss of T9, I hadn't really thought it through before typing what I did. It just bothers me when people use his physical appearance to determine what pronouns to use. And regarding Alphinaud, yes, he gets misgendered and it's presented as a joke and the characters find it funny at his expense. It's not funny, it is wrong to treat it that way, but at the same time, it's something I can totally relate to. I forgot about the Manderville scene though. That was less okay =\ It is in line with other Final Fantasies though - the trans or cross-dressing dancer in FFIV (I think she's in the Fabul inn?), the Cloud crossdressing scene in FFVII... I'm trying to think of others. I believe the Feris mistaken-gender thing was done just fine, but it's been a looong while since I played FFV, so I can't remember.

[SoloWingMetatron]

As a gay man myself I feel I need to weigh in on this.

I have to say I kinda understand both sides of this debate. When I see specified minority groups (LGBT, Feminists, etc) I feel all they are doing is just drawing a line in the sand and not only segregating themselves from the majority but also from each other, even though they are essentially fighting for the same thing. Equality.

In order for there to be true equality, people need to stop flying these individual banners and just fly one banner of equality that includes everyone, including straight people!

On the flip side however, I think it's easy for a straight person to say "there's no need for Pride", "You're shoving your sexuality down our throats", "You're just attention seekers" when they haven't experienced prejudice/discrimination based purely on the way you were born.

Straight people take that for granted and don't realize how fortunate they are. Gay people are literally being executed in diabolical, gruesome ways all across the Middle East/Africa. Gay people as young as 14 are being sentenced to death by hanging, whilst IS are throwing gay people off buildings, burning them alive, beheading them. Even Russia has the Anti-Gay Propaganda Law, which states that same sex relationships must not be mentioned in a positive light or be subjected to youngsters in any way under the penalty of prosecution. Not to mention the high gay teen suicide rates across the Western world due to religious bigotry.

All of what I just mentioned above plus more, is exactly why Pride is still needed. To be a voice against such horrific treatment and stand as an example of what is right!

However the ideal is a world where Pride is no longer needed because true equality exists. However we do not live in such a world yet so until then Pride will be needed.

Furthermore Pride is not exclusive to just gay people. I know many straight people who attend my local Pride here in Britain. It's not some exclusive thing, straight people who are happy for equal rights have always been welcome.

[ExponentialDecay]

Please show me all of these gay NPCs by the way I'd love to know

all the characters in the game are gay until otherwise stated. yes, even the player characters.

[Souljacker]

...
"It's begging for attention"
"Pride is a troll movement"
"When do you ever see straight pride??"...

I'll share my experience, and it's not representative of everyone, but maybe it is of some. For me, it wasn't about "pride". It wasn't about some defiant declaration that I'm a sapphist and I'm here, whether you like it or not. Perhaps, once upon a time, that's exactly what these pride parades were for. Once upon a time isn't 2015 for many of us, though.

I joined this guild several months ago because I wanted a place to fit in, and I joined the parade and marched because I wanted to have a fun day with my friends. We drank, we hung out on mumble, we laughed,we messed up, and overall we just had a really stellar time with one another. Not once did anyone shout anything in game about it, not once did we troll or harass other people, we just quietly put together our little rainbow and walked one zone, and flew another. There was no fanfare, and the only ones who even knew the time and date of the march were members of Taint. All of Gilgamesh (except that one low level who stumbled upon us lol) was completely oblivious to what we were up to.

There was nothing attention-whorey about it. So, please keep this in mind as you look at the responses in this thread. This was something that we did for ourselves, and for each other, and our leader saw fit to share it with the rest of the world so maybe, just maybe, people who are scared and alone realize they have somewhere to go.

And that's my opinion on it, expressed as politely as possible.

[Hyouretsuzan]

snip

I'm glad you shed light on this event. I'm happy you guys did this and had a blast doing so. What I didn't like was people coming in the thread and spouting the quotes that you quoted from me. Like, people can't even have fun without someone coming here and making a mountain out of a mole hill. Like, I knew this was gonna happen 'cause every thread I stumble that even hints LGBT will have these people swarming in and just spouting negative nonsense. I suppose it was too hard for them to simply ignore the thread and move on with their lives. But no, they decided to come in and express how "annoying" it is to see stuff like this.

[Souljacker]

I don't want you to think I used your quote because I was attacking you. You just had them all conveniently together and I agreed with your "popcorn it" approach.

The truth is, we really didn't have any agenda. It wasn't about anyone else. It wasn't about society at large. It was just something that is uniquely LGBT (pride parades) that cascaded down to our group and we just wanted to play something aside from raids with each other. In the entire time that we put this together we talked to each other, we coordinated our colors and verified who is what color, we organized our chocobos, we decided who is going to follow whom and how we are going to line up... I don't think any one of us at any time thought "Oyea this will show them!" Nah, we just wanted to put weird colors on ourselves (I was grape purple lol) and hang out. It was supremely silly and ultimately fun. I wish we could have included the entire server, but this thread is a pretty good indication of why that's still a few decades off. Regardless of anyone's actual intention, some may interpret it in a way that we really didn't mean it. That's to be expected.

Still, I will do it again next year if we do another one, and it will be for the same reasons as this year. I love this game, I love my friends, and I love to have ridiculously drunk fun times. There isn't a hidden depth. We just wanted to do something fun that LGBT could relate to.

That's a parade. And it was FABULOUS!

See you all in game!

[_Pigzig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAj26rVWK14

[Pomelo]

I'm not getting involved in this debate but I'm so jealous that your FC isnt on my server it sounds amazing :/

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Odd feelings aside, I definitely think discussion like this is fairly important for sure! And I can definitely agree with your commentary regarding folks' statements regarding claims like "cries for attention" and "Games shouldn't have folks like you" sorta stuff. I mean.. I think part of the issue definitely comes from a whole "Well I'm currently satisfied, I don't get why you're not satisfied! This game is a-okay" and due to them not really having similar experiences (Nor will they ever be in that situation considering I doubt there will ever be a situation where media will only have genderless/non-cishet people) they don't see the importance of it.. We've gotta hope that by having discussion and talking about how we value it we can at least garner some sympathy in the very least!

And I apologize for making you feel like you did :P Sorry! I suppose I should definitely keep in mind operational definitions in the future myself. It's always good to get an actual Japanese person's view on the whole ordeal when talking about purpose! Though, I have to ask, and apologies in advance if this is too invasive, but why bother even having this whole idea that your PC is trans in the first place? Like, I'd figure it'd just be easier to just go "My PC is a cisgender, end of story" instead of having this whole ordeal with them finding a fantasia and it solving all their woes. Thank you for defining your specific meaning of transition in this context though! It'll help clarify some stuff in the discussion, which is good for readers in general :P Best of luck in your transition, hope it won't be too hard.

Well, I do think you're using the most common definition for gender identity, but I personally see "gender expression" as the personal way you express your own gender. Like my major issue with defining gender expression based on external opinions is that ultimately relates to a whole "Well x sees me as non-binary, y sees me as super effeminate" and so effectively you end up with a bunch of conflicting information.. Now there's some really interesting discussion I recently read with regards to how we interpret "male" features in comparison to "female" features on human faces and how that ends up basically meaning for every male feature you need four female features to balance this out (Discussed in this book! "Gender: An Ethnomethodological Approach" by Suzanna Kessler, Wendy McKenna, which I may pick up out of interest).. Further there's also a cultural ordeal with what we define as masculine and feminine as well too, there's been various studies on romantic languages in which case random people were asked to define things that are pronounced in masculine ways compared to feminine ways from country to country, this basically ended up with a Violin (One of the examples I remember) being associated with very femininity associated traits by French people (IIRC, as I think they treat violins as feminine nouns in the language) while it'd be associated with very masculine associated traits by German people (Again IIRC, as I think the German language treats violins as a masculine noun).. Also similar, the way we've swapped pink and blue as colors for boys and girls within the past century. This basically kind of leads me to my issue with defining expression via external opinion.. Which is by defining gender expression with external interpretations to come into play with personal matters, you may as well be seen as a guy in one country and a girl in the next. But that's largely me going on a semi tangent, and I can definitely see how you can come to your conclusion based on the society we currently live in.. That whole tangent being said as well, I just wish we had some bones thrown towards us folks where fantasia doesn't satisfy us. (And I'm adding a new paragraph here to break things up)

Like.. The addition of the Au Ra has brought up some really dissatisfying feelings with this game and the way the various races are portrayed due to their incredibly sexually dimorphic species with absolutely no leeway for the girls (I could argue you could make a somewhat feminine guy facially with one of the faces, though height and scales are always an issue, while a masculine girl is neigh impossible) and it kinda just leaves me feeling completely unsatisfied with every race besides the incredibly feminine-leaning androgynous Lalafell (In which I figure a transgender Lalafell isn't so hard to visualize with what we've got in the game).. I could understand not adding a "Thin guy Roe/Bulky girl Roe" for a while, but I really wish they'd make heights for the sexes of each race equal, adding a few masculine and feminine faces for girls and guys respectively of each race, and allow races to have options between some of the stereotypical "Male/Female" traits of each race (e.g. allowing Au Ra to choose which scale pattern they'd prefer or allow the mixing of facial markings for the Miqo'te). That'd be the ideal way to address my needs/wants as a transgender person playing this game, and I really don't think adding more facial options and equalizing the heights would be too difficult at least.

It's fine :P I'm like.. Really into analyzing the way gender occurs in fictional media, and I found the boss of T9 kinda interesting but hey. Both the Alphinaud "joke" and Manderville scene kinda made me uncomfortableI dunno, this game (And Final Fantasy) in general strikes me as very odd with the way it handles it all. With Final Fantasy in general, there's loads of feminine people (Though there does seem to be a good bit more feminine villains than protagonists ((And those protagonists tend to lean more androgynous imho)) from what I've seen which is problematic but I won't go into that, at the moment.), but the exact handling of femininity has always been awkward. I'm not really too too familiar with Feris or this character you're talking about in FFIV, though looking at the wiki I kinda wish they kept Feris gender neutral or had her swap between presenting as a guy and girl throughout FFV.. But that's unlikely of happening any time soon. I am however, a good bit more familiar with the FFVII Cloud scene.. And I'm not looking forward to that in the remake to be honest :\ Even if that part of the story is suppose to be seen as "Hey! Guys wearing traditionally feminine clothing is fine, don't be silly." (As I've seen some people interpret the part as), but if it is, I feel like it fails miserably at that, due to Cloud's discomfort of it all (As he's the player character, ie the one you're suppose to identify with most), the intent of it all so that Cloud can trick Don Corneo (The idea of "men" dressing up to trick people for more "private" affairs in final fantasy also happens in FFVIII which makes me a bit uncomfortable in my honest opinion), and the handling of some of the minor characters involved in the mini games. I mean.. Final Fantasy isn't the only piece of media that does this sorta stuff, heck imho, it lies firmly in the majority with very little in the opposite of positive representation gender expression variance or (And even less on this one) trans characters much to my displeasure, but I can only hope this sorta stuff improves (and improves rather quickly and soon) in the series as a whole.. But currently that kind of feels like a hope based in fantasy (heh ; .

all the characters in the game are gay until otherwise stated. yes, even the player characters.

Oooh ho, trust me I wish I could think that, but I don't think I could fool myself like that :P