Tank Balance

[Reynhart]

Prey, the T6 honey debuff, T8 brainjack, T7 cursed voice/shriek and venomous tail, T9 Ravensbeak poison and fire/ice debuffs... probably more I forgot. So that change would be a big problem in raid content unless it's limited to removing DoTs and not all debuffs.

All those debuffs are already "easy" to "negate", they just require a certain mechanic (or simple damage mitigation). Removing one of them every 180s is hardly changing the overall pace of a fight, considering that the raid can also be inflicted with this status.

After all, Hallowed Ground is also use to "bypass" some mechanics, like sharing Akh Morn.

[Donjo]

Prey, the T6 honey debuff, T8 brainjack, T7 cursed voice/shriek and venomous tail, T9 Ravensbeak poison and fire/ice debuffs... probably more I forgot. So that change would be a big problem in raid content unless it's limited to removing DoTs and not all debuffs.

You can make this pretty easy. If a cleanse spell cannot remove it, neither could this theoretical Tempered Will.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Paladin has been quote-unquote "more defensive". Being a defensive Tank should mean are larger, more varied and powerful toolkit for damage mitigation and should also take more investment than "well, I popped this one thing." I don't think Paladin is in that state right now,

Great one-liner here. Also. . . this guy said quote-unquote then used quotes around the quote that he was quoting and unquoting and for that, he is a true boss.

#QuoteUnquote

[Reynhart]

You can make this pretty easy. If a cleanse spell cannot remove it, neither could this theoretical Tempered Will.

Which would come back to the relative poor usage of the skill. If a cleanse spell can remove it in one GCD, a 180s CD is not really useful.

[Anyndel]

All those debuffs are already "easy" to "negate", they just require a certain mechanic (or simple damage mitigation). Removing one of them every 180s is hardly changing the overall pace of a fight, considering that the raid can also be inflicted with this status.

After all, Hallowed Ground is also use to "bypass" some mechanics, like sharing Akh Morn.

Yeah, and Hallowed Ground is the strongest defensive cooldown on the game given to PLDs since they're the defense experts. Bypassing raid mechanics with a skill would make PLD being picked always over WAR and DRK, even if they're easy to negate. It might really not be so overpowered and still be a safety net, but you have to keep in mind the other two tanks who can't avoid anything.

[Reynhart]

It might really not be so overpowered and still be a safety net, but you have to keep in mind the other two tanks who can't avoid anything.

Let's look at the status you mentionned :

• Prey : Cannot target main tank (I'm not even sure it can target a tank), and easy enough to negate to still pick better DPS-tank
• T6 honey debuff : Doesn't target tanks
• T8 brainjack : Only prevents you from doing damage to the boss, since no important mechanic involces the MT during brainjack
• T7 cursed voice : Even if they look away for one GCD, other tanks will still do more damage
• T7 cursed shriek : Cannot target main tank. Might not target the OT, and only prevents the target from doing damage while running to the right spot.
• T7 venomous tail : Only a slight chance that the PLD will be the target and even though, any tank can mitigate the damage to allow one healer to cleanse them.
• T9 Ravensbeak poison : Not a big deal since it's fairly predictable and can be mitigated already.
• T9 fire/ice debuffs : Raid wide mechanic, even if the PLD is immune, it won't save the raid. Besides, it can screw up the timing of Fire-in/Fire-out and get the PLD killed.

Besides, yes, PLD IS supposed to be the defense expert. When picking your tank, you'll have to weight bypassing one debuff every 3 minutes or having an overall better DPS.

[Anyndel]

-snip-

True enough some of them are pretty stupid like brainjack (and prey can target OT and paralyze him if missed by the healers), but still if it's stupid take it wrongly and might spin the boss and get him to give a frontal cone AoE to all the raid potentially wiping. All mechanics are stupid and easy taken alone, it's the whole fight that makes them hard to handle since they're a lot. You're not avoiding a debuff, you're avoiding a debuff while doing and pending in lots of other things. Fights look easy on guides because you read them one by one, more small stuff = more chances you'll miss something and wipe the raid; allowing someone to bypass them is reducing far more risks than it looks like.

I would rather have tempered will just stay as it is, and wouldn't mind it removing DoTs or stuff removed by cleanse which would be removing a GCD from a heal at no cost, more than that is too much taking into account how many defensive cooldowns the PLD has. Saying "When picking your tank, you'll have to weight bypassing one debuff every 3 minutes or having an overall better DPS" is a false statement since you're already picking putting less strain on healers or having an overall better DPS now. PLDs have to assume there's an alternative to PLD MT now and they aren't the best pick 100% of the time the same way the WAR have to assume they're gonna be OTing.

[Xenosan]

I agree I can imagine Tempered Will being a self-esuna. (As is though I find use for it plenty in PvP and in some trials)

But if buffing Tempered Will, another route I can imagine: preventing cast interruption. In 2.x a Surecast effect didn't seem plausible for PLD because they didn't have a cast spell that wasn't cross-classed. But with Clemency now I feel like it could be appropriate. TW > Clemency could find it's way against magical tank busters

And just to go the whole way, an OP Tempered Will: Prevent cast interruption, whilst in PLD* cast animation, incoming damage reduced by 20%.

The thing with Divine Veil for me, if it were a lvl 30-50 job ability I'd have a different opinion on it. But by 52+ I feel like it's another drop in the bucket, dunno..

[Reynhart]

PLDs have to assume there's an alternative to PLD MT now and they aren't the best pick 100% of the time the same way the WAR have to assume they're gonna be OTing.

Avoiding a mechanic is also putting less strain on healers. Nowadays, the "less strain" is far too little to justify picking a PLD when compared to the DPS loss, since DPS is the most important aspect of endgame content.
WAR's mitigation is very close to PLD (Especially in magical fights), while their DPS as MT is much higher.

So, if you have WAR+PLD, you either chose to put the WAR as MT because he can do more DPS and you know you can manage all mechanics properly, or you put the PLD if you want to bypass some mechanics. And bypassing some mechanics would allow the PLD to DPS more too (Tempered Will already helps with that for knockbacks, in fact)

[Rbstr]

I dono why Divine Veil gets so much crap.

It's an extra, stacking, shield for raid-wide damage. It will automatically deploy on a Succor. Or, if the Scholar is Deploying an Adlo, they can cast it on you.
Plenty of fights past have had big raid-wides that required Stone Skin+Succor and even Sacred Soil on top of it in order to keep squishy DPS alive. Veil is fantastic for that.