Bard - they broke my job

[StrejdaTom]

Cool, so my post got deleted because it contained Lucrezia's parse screen or because someone reported me for it, IDK..
Well, can't really have a good discussion without numbers..

TL;DR of my long, unnecessarily deleted post:
IMO BRDs are in better position now, in average parties they can do more or similar DPS as some other DPS jobs.
If they deleted Minuet, they would have to lower the DPS, which is uneacceptable.
Any BRD that is currently having problem with his DPS might check KrietoR's guide and get WTFast (even for free, the trial is unlimited) if he is from Europe, it helps a lot.

Also dummy parses are kinda useless, in every fight you will have to move a bit or even stance dance (A1s add phase). Also every fight gives you the ability to multi DoT.
It is better for you to compare your DPS with others in real fights. If you don't raid, I would suggest Alex as Ravana and Bis EX are bit tricky.

A1S, at least with what I'm seeing from Havoc's spreadsheet, BRDs and MCH are still last of the DPS. Comparing BRD top scores to DRG(was in a good spot before, is in a good spot now) top scores puts us roughly around where we were before.

A2S. Yay AoEs! We do well here.

A3S. I don't have enough information to really say anything here.

(I think this is public, but if it isn't let me know and I'll remove the link)Havoc's High Scores spreadsheet, the only thing I've been able to find with any real info: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#

Not sure if your post will stay unchanged, because of the numbers, but I think that it shows that the difference is not so high (except SMN), atleast for A1.
If we compared the best people in A1, BRD is doing around 100 less than other jobs (except SMN) and is on par with NIN, which is kinda nice realising that we still have songs.

IMO if we compared % of difference before HW and after HW, I believe we are much closer to melees right now.

[AkashiXI]

Cool, so my post got deleted because it contained Lucrezia's parse screen or because someone reported me for it, IDK..
Well, can't really have a good discussion without numbers..

TL;DR of my long, unnecessarily deleted post:
IMO BRDs are in better position now, in average parties they can do more or similar DPS as some other DPS jobs.
If they deleted Minuet, they would have to lower the DPS, which is uneacceptable.
Any BRD that is currently having problem with his DPS might check KrietoR's guide and get WTFast (even for free, the trial is unlimited) if he is from Europe, it helps a lot.

Also dummy parses are kinda useless, in every fight you will have to move a bit or even stance dance (A1s add phase). Also every fight gives you the ability to multi DoT.
It is better for you to compare your DPS with others in real fights. If you don't raid, I would suggest Alex as Ravana and Bis EX are bit tricky.

That's really dumb. Your post was incredibly informative, non-condescending, and it could have helped plenty of Bards up their game. I hope that doesn't discourage you from posting more information in the future.

[StrejdaTom]

That's really dumb. Your post was incredibly informative, non-condescending, and it could have helped plenty of Bards up their game. I hope that doesn't discourage you from posting more information in the future.

Thank you for the support.
Well I never use numbers to harrass others, only to inform, so I hope I am not balancing on the edge of getting banned lol. xD

[Inferiae]

IMO BRDs are in better position now, in average parties they can do more or similar DPS as some other DPS jobs.

From experience, they are not. Speaking of equally skilled players, the gap between BRD and other DPS used to be much smaller, relatively speaking. As I said in another post, it went from ~6% to ~20% DPS difference.

Of course, I think it ultimately depends on player skill more than anything, but we're not in a better position if the complexity of the job increased and the relative DPS decreased.

[StrejdaTom]

From experience, they are not. Speaking of equally skilled players, the gap between BRD and other DPS used to be much smaller, relatively speaking. As I said in another post, it went from ~6% to ~20% DPS difference.

Of course, I think it ultimately depends on player skill more than anything, but we're not in a better position if the complexity of the job increased and the relative DPS decreased.

I know, I replied to your posts with video and parse screens from different statics including mine. Unfortunately it got deleted so I am kinda unable to argue with you, all I can say for now is that I disagree..
In comparison with SMN the difference got higher imo, but in comparison with other DPSes and even melees I believe we are doing better, but discussing that is kinda waste of time, if we cannot provide evidence in our posts.

EDIT: My opinion is based on my own experience from HW raiding plus on parses from HC teams like Lucrezia and also other statics from Ragnarok.

[Inferiae]

I know, I replied to your posts with video and parse screens from different statics including mine. Unfortunately it got deleted so I am kinda unable to argue with you, all I can say for now is that I disagree..
In comparison with SMN the difference got higher imo, but in comparison with other DPSes and even melees I believe we are doing better, but discussing that is kinda waste of time, if we cannot provide evidence in our posts.

EDIT: My opinion is based on my own experience from HW raiding plus on parses from HC teams like Lucrezia and also other statics from Ragnarok.

Yeah, taking your post down was silly :c

[dielray]

Not sure if your post will stay unchanged, because of the numbers, but I think that it shows that the difference is not so high (except SMN), atleast for A1.
If we compared the best people in A1, BRD is doing around 100 less than other jobs (except SMN) and is on par with NIN, which is kinda nice realising that we still have songs.

IMO if we compared % of difference before HW and after HW, I believe we are much closer to melees right now.

I don't know why your post got deleted, I feel it contributed to the conversation without being antagonistic. My last post was actually originally in reply to yours, as well as pointing out that the Lucrezia parse was from their speed run of RavEx. Very impressive and worth a watch, but I disagreed on its use to show bard's placement. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmhmbzwASX0

Of the final coil fights, I think T10 was closest to A1S in terms of benefit to bard vs other classes, so I did some math using Havoc's spreadsheet just to get an idea. I took the top 3 of each job and figured bards damage as a percentage of it. Here is what I got:

Monk: T10 91.5%, A1S 93.9%
DRG: T10 96.6%, A1S 91.1%
NIN: T10 98.1%, A1S 99.5%
BLM: T10 99.3%, A1S 89.0%
SMN: T10 112.9%, A1S 82.6%

To me it looks roughly the same, but if you feel it's an increase that's ok too. I think we can at least agree on how awesome SMN is in A1S and A2S.