Don't you think the different between Def of Pld/War is so little compare to dps?

[Phoenicia]

Like a lot of people have pointed out, the video Phoenicia keeps linking has a number of flaws.

I stopped taking him seriously because the BG forums treat him like a joke. And, in general, I respect their overall opinion on things much more than these forums.

No point in 5 minute parses. All of their rotations just repeat after a certain point and the strange cut off point only messes with the numbers. The only point it shows is how hilariously bad the TP issues are for DRK and PLD.

PLD and DRK are given TP support and 100% uptime on the slashing debuff at no personal expense.

WARs are given no TP support (because they don't need it), have no one removing pacification from them after berserk, and cannot use their optimal DPS rotation because they have to upkeep the slashing debuff themselves (Maim's upkeep allows for SE>BB>BB, SE's upkeep forces you to SE>BB).

All in all, it's a dummy parse of pure DPS output. In a live raid, it's far from as ideal. If any tanking is involved, the PLD's DPS will drop because RoH is their lowest potency combo while BB is the WAR's highest potency combo.

On A1S where there are jump phases, I still find myself needing to weave in shield swipes in order to not bottom out on TP as PLD and as a DRK, I have to use unmend as filler after bottoming out on TP. I guess I could also just not use Blood Weapon off CD but that would also be a DPS loss. So, the only way to deal with it without having a loss of raid DPS is for a NIN to goad you (BRD singing is a DPS loss). It's not balanced that 2/3 tanks require that. And, on that point about NIN, unless you have one in your raid, you won't have 100% up-time on the slashing debuff as a PLD or DRK after 0.5 enters the fight. Even then, it's a DPS loss for the NIN and the slashing debuff can fall off while the NIN is off playing with his add. WAR has no such issues with TP or with the slashing debuff.

A2S is what I would consider an actual trade off. Hallowed Ground allows you to cheese a wave which is actually important. You are giving up 300-500 raid DPS in bringing a PLD vs. a DRK / WAR but HG really helps stabilize your raid during the last few waves. What people need to realize about Hallowed Ground is that it hasn't been as good in HW yet. There are situations where it's just another defensive CD like A1S and A3S. Then there are situations where it's raid changing like in A2S or Ravana EX. There was an abundance of the latter in FCoB. In T10, paired with tempered will (and Holmgang), it basically just negated the tank swap mechanic. In T12, it let you just ignore one revelation cycle. In T13, it made later Akh Morns a lot more manageable. It altered the way you did content which is why it was so good. AS hasn't been designed in the same way -- probably for tank balance concerns. Ultimately, it comes around to hurt PLD's because their stand-out ability has been marginalized.

A3S you have the hand phases where the boss splits and you have a similar situation to A1S. You also have polarities which result in the slashing debuff likely falling off. You also have the WAR leaving the boss to handle tethers which also results in the slashing debuff falling off.

From what I've seen, heard, and experienced of live situations, the difference while MTing is something like 80-100 DPS (somewhere around 10~15% higher DPS for the WAR). While OTing, it's closer to 100-200 DPS depending on downtime (somewhere around 10~20% higher DPS for the WAR). It's not a gigantic difference in DPS but it's a difference that matters. So you give Warriors the best tank DPS (MT and OT), the best tank utility, and better raid comp choices as a result while also giving them adequate survivability. Good for them. Now bring the other tanks in line with that so that there is some semblance of balance and a real choice to make when composing a raid.

You should be able to bring any two of the three tanks to any content and be able to perform equally overall. As is, PLD / DRK comps are strictly worse. You have less raid DPS even with a NIN keeping the slashing debuff up and less raid mitigation.

The BG forums and Mr Happy are a joke on Guildwork. Heck, the whole official forums are a joke on Guildwork. Posts like this end up there for joke fodder. So saying that me being a joke on a joke forums platform proves nothing other than encouraging hateful comments on these forums. I won't stoop as low. Oh and please take me seriously, I can't live if you don't! I mean the world definitely revolves around you and you only! Btw, nothing against Mr Happy or the people on BG forums. I was just trying to point out the effect of such comments.

The whole people pointing out that the dummy video has flows are mainly you and Anger. It's not a perfect video but it IS a guide line.

I never said PLD and DRK TP issues are balanced. But they are for the most part negligible because almost none of the fights have you sit on the boss for over 2 minutes without breaks.

WAR doing SE > BB > BB is NOT optimal for DPS, it is for aggro, not DPS. Anyone thinking it's optimal has no idea how WAR works and is just spewing BS. If that's the level of BG forums, I can see why they are the joke of Guildwork. (Not that Guildwork people are of any consequence).

Maim lasts 24 seconds, that's 9.6 GCDs. Following SE > BB > BB, you have EXACTLY 9 GCDs before you reach Maim again, this leaves you no space to use Fracture or Fell Cleave, use 1 GCD and Maim drops before reapplied and you will have at least 1 hit without Maim. Using Infuriate for double Fell Cleave is out of the question. Berserk Pacification screws you hard.

In a SE > BB > BB, dropping Fracture is a DPS loss because fracture is ~93 potency higher than your average potency. Fell Cleave is an obvious DPS loss as well. There is NEVER a situation where WAR will do SE > BB > BB where it is optimal. So even if 2 warriors coordinate it, it's not ideal. Try it, you can test it in game, I'm not gonna bother proving it to you.

Yes, WAR not getting Esuna on pacification was not ideal, but WAR wouldn't get Esuna all the time in actual fights. Even then, Esuna is not more than 20 DPS difference and it is a loss on the healers' DPS (Since that's the only thing behind Pacification removal in their priority list). It is not like if you Esuna the WAR he'll suddenly do 2k DPS and without TP DRK and PLD can't do DPS for the first 2.5 minutes (longer than 1.5 minute cycle!)

Also, 5 minute parses serve to normalize the effect of RNG on your DPS. Parses should be repeats of 1.5 minute cycles (Berserk/FOF CD). You repeat that cycle more often so crits are normalized. For example, a triple zerked FC critting along with a stream of lucky crits on t he other hits will edge your DPS higher than it should, you repeat that cycle a few times so lucky crit streaks and unlucky non-crit streams normalize each other. In the dummy video, you can capture the DPS right at the 4min30s mark. If you want, you can drop the TP buffs and just repeat the 1.5 min cycle (Pop FoF and stop when it comes back on CD, take a TP break, repeat) for 3 or 5 times. Take your DPS average and compare it to WAR. You'll get "more accurate" parses and normalized DPS difference.

As I stated before, in an ideal situation, the gap between classes is at its largest. Any non-ideal situation makes this gap smaller. Losing 10% DPS due to mechanics affects everyone's DPS equally. Also, another point which shows you don't know what you're talking about, any down time in a fight while Berserk is on CD is as beneficial to WAR as it is to PLD while FoF is on CD. Out of the three tanks, breaks affect DRK the most as they have no "burst phases" in their, pretty much, flat line DPS curve. You have it in the wrong order.

In my other video (A3S kill) a PLD did 730 DPS, which is only 70 DPS behind the WAR OT! Anyone saying PLD is so far behind WAR needs to link a video of a WAR MT in the same fight doing over 80 DPS (the disparity in the ideal (dummy) fight).

Also, stop looking at it as if NIN "loses" DPS without WAR. NIN applying DE is its optimal rotation. Having a WAR in party means it gains some DPS (70 DPS according to your so knowledgeable Mr Happy in his guide). That is like saying "MNK applying its own DK is a DPS loss because if another MNK applies it they can crit the Bootshine!"

Also, to any PLD saying Hallowed Ground isn't great: In 2.xx, WAR used to say "We're better MTs because we handle busters better!" and PLD's reply has always been: "No, we have Hallowed Ground!"...... The joke's on you now.

All I see here is PLDs refusing to accept the proof right before their eyes because they still cannot accept that they are no longer the MT of choice.