"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Syrehn]

i've come to realize in this whole thread ppl are so stuck in their beliefs they have become a wall. not one suggestion or alternative is allowed through.

This is simply just not true. This whole thread is full of points and counterpoints; it's an open discussion. Just because many of us can counter the points for the reasons some players are using vote kick in this discussion doesn't mean we're not open to alternative suggestions or solutions.

So far throughout the thread we've seen that the reasons players list for using vote kick are:

1) Player asks for a vote kick to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
2) Player AFK's force a vote kick to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
3) Player uses a force d/c to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
4) Player asks for a vote kick to dodge penalty when their PVP team is losing
5) Player asks for a vote kick when they don't like the group (again dodging penalty)
6) Player asks for a vote kick due to an emergency
7) Player asks for a vote kick because they have prior obligations and didn't allow for enough time (again dodging penalty)

I'm sure there are a few more that I might have missed but these appear to be the most common. IMO none of these are worthy of someone in the party consuming their vote kick rights. In almost all the scenarios they want to be kicked to dodge the penalty to go back into other content; the penalty timer exits for a reason.


Some counter points to the above are:

1) If you don't want a penalty timer, and don't want a specific dungeon then don't queue up for a roulette. There is no reason that any party member should be consuming their vote kick on you because you don't like the dungeon. Suck it up or leave on your own. If you're going to harass the group they should be collectively reporting you.

2) If you get a dungeon you don't like and you AFK out at the start, or if the group is doing bad, to force a kick not only is that harassment to your group and they should be collectively reporting you but you're again trying to dodge the penalty timer. The group shouldn't have to use their limited vote kick on a player like this. The group refusing to do so does not make them toxic. In some cases, depending on the role who is pulling the stunt (i.e. tank/healer) it's not always faster to kick and get an instant fill. This could lead the party to have to force abandon. It's discourteous to the party.

3) The same explanation given in 2 applies to 3.

4) Honestly, I can't even find a reason that anyone would justify using their vote kick on this player. Just let them AFK and they'll get an inactive timer and the game will auto remove them.

5) If a player doesn't like the group they're in, either because they're not getting along with the other players or they don't think the run is going smoothly then, quite simply, they have the option to leave. Asking to be removed because you don't like the group is not enough reason for the other team members to use their limited vote kick so that the offending player can dodge the timer and re-queue for another group. Who's to say this person won't like the next group and ask to be kicked again. This is a way to cherry pick groups.

6) While I want to have faith that there is truly an emergency that a player needs to attend to it seems highly unlikely that any player that has an irl emergency is going to ask to be kicked because of it. They won't be worried about a penalty timer if there is a true emergency they're worried about what is going on where they are currently and are most likely just going to drop the group (getting a penalty). This feels like it could become a "go to" excuse to get a sympathy kick.

7) This just comes down to time management. Players need to be aware of how much time they have before their upcoming obligations. Don't queue up 30 minutes before your raid and expect quick runs. You could end up, as mentioned in a previous comment, with team members that are all totally new to the dungeon. The reality is that SE gave x amount of time for the entire dungeon to be completed. If you don't have the time/patience to put up with wipes/slow group for the entirety of the timer to tick down before you have to go to raid then you shouldn't be queueing up. This isn't a reason, imo, to ask for a vote kick. It leaves the current group hanging as well your raid team if the group decides to not vote kick you out; it's discourteous to both teams.

Keep in mind that those of us countering points made for using vote kick in what can be deemed an inappropriate way haven't said never, ever, ever, use vote kick on anyone who asks for it ever. There is something to be said for player courtesy and personal choice regarding using the vote kick feature. We are simply stating that each reason that has currently been given there wasn't a need to be kicked. No one is holding any player in any duty hostage by not vote kicking them out; the option to leave at any time is always there.


Some of the solutions offered have been:

A) Implement a penalty timer on players who get vote kicked.

Players who pull these Ask To Leave, AFK, Force D/C shenanigans are likely not to do it if they know that there are repercussions if they do. They're doing it now, and getting away with it, because there is no negative impact for it. When players allow this behaviour it not only affects their current group but affects the future groups of other players when the offending person keeps at it in other groups.

This could also have some negative impacts on players who get kicked unjustly, which I personally feel is probably few and far between, as well as players that have poor connections and D/C alot. Keep in mind that many parties will wait a fair amount of time for D/C'd players to return before initiating a vote kick for "Offline".

B) Implement an inactivity timer similar to PVP.

This would have to be something that ties in with combat as well otherwise the offending player could just run around in circles at the front of the duty to dodge being inactive.

C) 2 strike penalty rule for vote kick.

If you get vote kicked the first time it's like a grace period. If you get vote kicked for x reason a second time, and any time subsequently thereafter in the same day, you'll get a penalty timer.

D) Who cares, just kick and replace.

This really doesn't work as a viable solution imo because the offenders get off scot-free to keep on offending other groups.

Currently collectively reporting the offending player for harassment and vote kicking for x reason is the only way to get a new team member and the offender gets to skip off into other content as they please. If the group doesn't report the player or if a GM let's it slide with a warning, the offending player gets to keep on offending with no repercussion; this shouldn't be the case. Hence, why some of us in this thread have offered up thoughts on potential deterrents to the current system.

Some parties opt to let the offender AFK while they finish the instance and they are within their rights to do this, if they feel they can complete the duty, so they don't consume their vote kick ability.

[Malevicton]

D) Who cares, just kick and replace.

This really doesn't work as a viable solution imo because the offenders get off scot-free to keep on offending other groups.

As someone who's been saying this, I haven't been claiming it's somehow a solution. Ideally people should get some sort of punishment for circumventing the system. You can still kick the person and then report them. I just still have yet to see how not kicking a person works as any sort of punishment. It seems like a very knee-jerk reaction. You don't want to give in to the person, so you withhold what they want out of reflex. But it doesn't really punish the person, it punishes the whole group. Now you've just got a dead spot in the group that's not being replaced. It's not gonna deter this behavior in the future, they're already alt tabbed on Netflix. It's purely to feel better about one's self.

There's really nothing at this point a player can do to punish someone besides reporting them. So report them. Don't try to come up with some roundabout way to impose morality on people online; that never works. Just kick, report (if you care enough), and move on with your life.

[RiceisNice]

....

It does no better than to "reward" them for snobby behavior either. At that point, it's utterly a loss loss for the group. You either oblige them and encourage that behavior because of the fact it works, or burden the party with them (and possibly kick them out at the end to get a replacement for a 2/3 in progress, maybe. Especially if they're dps). Having a DF penalty for getting kicked would also alleviate the problem a little bit. And of course, collective player reports can go a long way.

"They're already wasting my time, why not waste their time too?" could be the general census of the other 3 players, especially if the one that's trying to cheat out is a tank.