Bard - they broke my job

[Duelle]

Did SE try and shove two sets of skills and ideas from two different classes into one?

Not necessarily. I think the problem is the devs' attempt to have the archer and troubadour sides of BRD mesh with each other didn't work out, and that's mostly due to poor implementation (see: WM).

I look back to the chanter from Pillars of Eternity and the Bard from The Bard's Tale and see there were other uses of songs in combat beyond buffing allies. I remember the Bard could summon minions, and the Chanter could trigger specific effects via invocations (hence why my Invocation system was inspired by the latter). Maybe instead of WM, BRD could have been given something along these lines to help it stand out.

[yamochan]

one thing im thinking about is still the reason for WM to even exist if SE wanted to make 4 range mage classes why even bother to make 4 different ones because thats what it is right now the 4 range classes are all almost the same. in the eyes of a developer that might be good because its oh so easy to balance but in the eyes of the players that just sucks

and plz dont say now *oh bard could evade all the aoes without anything blabla*
we still can we just to press one more button so sry guys but that argument is invalid.

[AiiroOkami]

People pls

I'll give you the definition of a "Mage" : "A magician, wizard, witch, or mage is someone who uses or practices magic derived from supernatural or occult sources. Magicians are common figures in works of fantasy, such as fantasy literature and role-playing games, and enjoy a rich history in mythology, legends, fiction, and folklore." (Thanks Wikipedia). Do the BRD and MCH find their power in supernatural or occult sources ? No. Just because you have cast time doesn't mean you are a mage.

And I didn't even understand your 2 last sentences but you sounded like a 12 yo girl in her puberty that tells her mom "Hun, Hun, mom. Just because you say so, you are not right okay ? I am 12 now, so shut up*

[Katchoo]

I look back to the chanter from Pillars of Eternity and the Bard from The Bard's Tale and see there were other uses of songs in combat beyond buffing allies. I remember the Bard could summon minions, and the Chanter could trigger specific effects via invocations (hence why my Invocation system was inspired by the latter). Maybe instead of WM, BRD could have been given something along these lines to help it stand out.

Adding to this, Bard from FFXI had Sleep songs, DoT songs, Defence Up songs, Element Debuffs songs etc etc

[Lastelli]

I actually enjoy a lot how BRD plays now with WM.
2.x BRD felt kind of...flat to me.

[yamochan]

snip

do BRD and MCH have cast times like the 2other mage classes now after hitting lvl 52 yes they have. i talk about playstyle not some mystical shenanigans all 4 play like the original BLM class now or at least close to it hence the reason i said 4 mages classes sry if that got misundertood.

also as for the last 2 sentences any time someone asks why bard got changed the answer from someone else was "because he could evade all boss mechanics" and that simply cant be the reason for the change, cause as i said we can still do that pretty easy by turning WM off (one click,done). i hope that explains the whole thing to you.

[AiiroOkami]

Snip

The answer "Because they could evade every mechanic" is totally true.
In most FCoB fights, A competent BRD could outDPS a BLM or SMN even some melees, just because they can move while DPSing while other classes couldn't really do it and it seemed really unfair to the players and to SE too.
Maybe you weren't there while the beginning of Titan HM, do you know what DPS class everyone wanted ? The BRD, because it could move while DPSing no matter what the mechanic was.

Now you have the same restrictions as everyone else, but WM is a also a really good boost that will make up for the movements restriction.
SE just did it for balance purpose.

[yamochan]

snip

i was there when titan started i know how much dmg BRD did. i was also there when we got nerfed the first time cause our songs stacked and our dmg was way to high.
i was there when the 2nd and 3rd nerfes hit us and put us at the end of the dps table because SE said BRD is now a supporter that for some reasons still queues up as dmg dealer.
i was there when heavensward hit us like a brick wall and BRD as well as MCH were left out of bismark ex because they just couldnt bring the dmg. also the fact that the whole damn class was changed you had to learn BRD from square one again.

im still here after 110 pages of SE ignoring the playerbase crying out for changes that might never come.because BRD feels clunky as shit and we get interupts to our shots because of aoe dmg or simply the server not noticing that the BRD is already standing and not moving anymore.

SE gave us one thing and thats the stance dance with this we can at least raid cause we are not miles behind anymore but still a good way behind.
oh and if u dont take my word for it, read the rest of the pages u will find it in many many other posts.

[Katchoo]

just because they can move while DPSing while other classes couldn't really do it and it seemed really unfair to the players and to SE too.
Maybe you weren't there while the beginning of Titan HM, do you know what DPS class everyone wanted ? The BRD, because it could move while DPSing no matter what the mechanic was.

Feel like we are going over old ground now.

Bard was balanced around having 100% uptime, thats why it has the lowest weapon damage in the game. Not only this but where other jobs have high potency skills and additional job skills we have song.

It's a case of the job being easy to maintain while dodging etc. I mean a DRG can dodge an attack and keep on attacking but it might mess up his rotation, maybe delay an attack slightly, the balance of jobs took this into account damage wise but not the amount of SKILL needed.

[RiceisNice]

...

A competent bard will not outdps a competent melee on any time of day, even with mechanics in mind (with very few exceptions like T9 on monk, because lol). A lot of Mechanics in FcoB weren't even that detrimental to melees who knew the fight in and out (which they had to if they wanted to meet checks before echo was inplemented), even in regards to getting flank/rear positional on T11 and earthshaker uptime on T13 (until the last phase anyway).

And even then, BRD and MCH's dps in 3.0 (that is, with WM/GB active) is still comparatively lower than that of all the other classes (who more or less have the same degree of freedom they had before, save for maybe blm). turning off WM/GB due to high movement has you dipping into playing a 2.0 class in a 3.0 environment which is now infact, a dps loss on high movement (because WM is technically not a direct increase, not as much as it is required to pull relatively the same numbers in comparison).