Vote-kicked for explaining 1st-timer tactics and having impatients get what's coming

[Valenth]

Hey guys,

So, did this ever happen to you? We had a first timer in Halatali HM, and as tank I was explaining boss tactics. This pair of an impatient summoner and scholar pulls before I even moved in the boss area and barely have my first sentence out, leading to almost two wipes on the first boss from the big AoE because I didn't have time to say to leave the mammet alone, and one on the second because I didn't have time to tell about the orb.

So after the second boss I say "Hey, if you guys don't want me to tank, just say so :P" and we move on. Then on the last boss, they pull the same thing, I just keep standing outside and the 1st timer as well, let them tank if they want so badly I'm thinking. In the meantime I'm explaining the few things to the 1st-timer and then BOOM, I'm kicked from party...

I'll agree, I guess was a bit of a jerk for not rushing to their 'rescue' like some Leroy Jenkins situation, but is this really what's happening to the community? That people are getting punished for explaining tactics? And yeah, I guess being overgeared makes following tactics not that unforgiving in Halatali HM, but that seems like a bad excuse for being terribly impatient. Anyway, I've not written this post to get something done about it, I know that's quite futile, but more because I'm curious about your toughts.

Thanks for the read!

Ps. the 1st-timer also left after, not finishing the dungeon, telling me he told them they were *ssholes, lol. I do so hope irony happened and they had to wait a looooooong time for a new tank.

[Mikedizzy]

I really hate it when dps or healer try and pull shit for me, that is just total bullshit. The tank sets the flow and the other jobs need to knock that crap off. You did a good think as long as the new person wanted to hear what you had to say. I have seen the reverse where the new player does not want to be told anything. It seems though to me that you were just being the kind of player we want in this game...keep doing what you do and F* those players.

[Greven]

Oddly enough the same thing happened to me some time ago and the fast puller were a SMN and a SCH as well.

[Kathryn]

The community is getting worse and more none helpful, it'll cause people like myself to get fed up of silent rushing parties to quit.

[Frederick22]

I have the exact same issue yesterday.
First timers on Cophell Mines HM, wiped 2 times on 1st boss. I explained the mechanics kindly and I got kicked.

[Garotte14]

I really hate it when dps or healer try and pull shit for me, that is just total bullshit. The tank sets the flow and the other jobs need to knock that crap off.

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

[Almalexia]

I've been in your shoes before.

But here's what you gotta do:

Don't explain anything to new players. Buff and pull.

If you survive, the new guy will have experienced the whole thing and will hopefully absorb enough to survive future encounters (like a real video game).
f you wipe, the new players now have a point of reference to boss mechanics and you can explain "Do X when you see Y." The butthurts will also probably leave the dungeon at this point, which they were going to do anyway.

There is little to gain by explaining boss mechanics to someone who has never seen this marker or that gimmick before. It's also very likely the rest of the party is so overgeared for the dungeon, surviving with only 3 party members is cake.

[DreadRabbit]

Keep doing what you're doing Valenth. We really need more tanks willing to help. The DF seems to bring the worst in people. Here's a story to show you're not alone.

Something similar happened to me and an LS friend on my previous server. I wanted to level archer to get Raging Strikes and he offered to tank for me after having healed for him in leveling DPS. Gladly accepted, we queued, landed in Sastasha NM of all things. Our team was a CNJ and a Pugilist who clearly also partied together. Both had sprouts by their names.

The friend was a great tank, imo. Before we even moved he gave a quick hello, said if they needed instructions to simply ask, and off we go. Didn't even force information down their throats, simply just made it known he was willing to talk. Marked targets so that we DPS knew who to hit, and we were off.

The Pugilist I think in the beginning honestly didn't know what he was doing (I only say "he" because his avatar was male), because he seemed to think that if he and I attacked different mobs, they'd go down faster. I also assume he was on console because he didn't talk at all during the run. As you can imagine, he kept pulling aggro off our tank because he refused to follow order. Our tank and I even switched to the enemy the pugilist was attacking and as soon as we did, he would change to a different enemy so it just became a mess. So this turned the run into an utter crawl because mobs were taking more time to kill. The pugilist grows very impatient and starts running ahead of us.

I pipe up and try to ask the Pugilist to stop attacking a different target from the tank and attack the marked target in order. He doesn't listen and actually starts pulling mobs before the rest of us can even get there. We saved him once, our tank declared "I have to ask that you don't do that as it makes it harder for the party than it needs to be. You pull again we'll let you die." Sure enough, Pugilist runs forward, pulls again, and runs in our direction expecting us to save him. The CNJ tried to keep him alive but failed. We asked the CNJ not to raise him because he was hindering the party more than helping, to which she replied "But, won't the run be slower if we don't have a full party?" We had to explain to her (again, female avatar, no clue if she was a girl or not) that what he was doing was going to put her at risk in future dungeons. And as the healer if she dies, the whole party is screwed. She still raised the guy before the boss and we ended up getting through. But as you can imagine, even something as simple as the water drain mechanic got ignored. Thank heavens I was in as an archer and could still attack while running around de-activating mechanics.

Edit-edit: Yes, the pugilist didn't even return to start of the dungeon when he died. He made it very clear he was waiting for his friend to raise him. I don't want to imagine their chat if they were on one.

So TL;DR: jerk players will always be jerks, and it can be found on all levels no matter how helpful or kind you are. They just want the clear. Again, keep doing what you're doing. All servers need more vets willing to explain things. The number of players I've ran into who heeded advice and were actually very kind in return for getting it far outnumber the rude players who ignored it. That alone gives me hope in places like DF.

[Ashkendor]

Nah, you weren't being a jerk. You were doing the right thing.

They, on the other hand, were being complete assholes.

If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it.

Kind of a moot point since the OP was talking about pulling bosses.

You don't run in and pull a boss while the tank isn't even in the room.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip

I don't agree with any of this. Tanks should always pull first and people shouldn't try to "help" by pulling things. Depending on the tank, they may not get hate off you right away. People who do this take unnecessary damage or possibly die and that's just adding more to the healer's plate, followed by drama because "the healer wasn't doing their job in healing" or how the tank "can't tank properly." I have endured many speed runs that botched horribly because of this, adding more time to something that was supposed to be "fast".

You want to know why people adapt to the "you pull it, you tank it" mindset? Because anyone who keeps pulling before the tank is impatient and these are likely the same people who run off before the healer can use Protect on everyone. If someone in my party keeps making the same rookie mistakes over over because they wanted to "help the tank" or just can't wait 5 seconds for a buff, then they're likely not going to be a good team player to begin with and I shouldn't wipe with them because of it. No one person can set the pace, but it is not selfish to ask people to let the tank do their job so that everyone else can stay alive.

People talk about tanks having a huge "memememe" ego trip (and some do have it), but healers and DPS can be just as selfish with their unnecessary pulling just because they want to finish the run 4 minute sooner. Not everyone in DF plays the same.