Vote-kicked for explaining 1st-timer tactics and having impatients get what's coming

[Amiaze]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow.

I have to respectfully disagree. Coming from a healer's perspective, I've experienced far too many wipes and personal deaths because a DPS would pull something when my tank's CDs weren't ready, or he was out of TP or I was low on MP, etc. Whatever the case, we weren't ready. I'd heal them because they'd take a hit that only a tank should be taking and would immediately pull aggro off of one or two of the enemies because the tank, again, was not ready. And then I would die, and the party would wipe.

This game is a team effort, yes, but we all have our roles to play in a party. That's why our stats and movesets are set up the way they are. DPS can pull enemies from afar when deemed necessary, as can healers, but never normal enemies. Again, as a healer, I've seen tanks pull mobs they simply couldn't survive, no matter how many heals went out. But when not healing, I've also seen DPS and healers pull mobs that I already knew my tank could not survive, but they thought he could. And we wiped. And when asked to stop pulling things, those people responded negatively.

As for Valenth, I agree with what you did. It's a shame that certain people in the community have become this way, as it discourages new players from playing with veteran players. Hopefully SE will take note of this and go out of their way to not force veteran players to grind level 15 content again like last time in an attempt to "encourage them to play together". All that resulted in were the fastest first-time runs for new players that anyone had ever seen.

[Syrehn]

I'd heal them because they'd take a hit that only a tank should be taking and would immediately pull aggro off of one or two of the enemies because the tank, again, was not ready. And then I would die, and the party would wipe.

This right here enables the problem. I have long ago stopped healing stupid DPS doing stupid pulls that the rest of the group isn't ready for. The more healers/tanks that stop attempting to heal/save those players and just let them hit the floor the more likely they won't do it in the future.

I know, it sounds like a dick thing to do but.... tough healer/tank love.

[Amiaze]

This right here enables the problem. I have long ago stopped healing stupid DPS doing stupid pulls that the rest of the group isn't ready for. The more healers that stop attempting to heal those players and just let them hit the floor the more likely they won't do it in the future.

I know, it sounds like a dick thing to do but.... tough healer love.

I agree completely. That's why I stopped healing anyone who pulls that isn't a tank. I don't enjoy dying to random mobs, and the party certainly doesn't enjoy wiping. Just considering how other people in your party feel goes a long way. I don't think it's wrong at all. When I started tanking and people would pull enemies, I'd just sheathe my sword and stand there, watching, until they died. I shouldn't have to pull out all the stops (due to it being a low-level dungeon) to pull aggro away from something that I wasn't ready to pull in the first place.

I do understand when tanks move slowly, too, though. Waiting 1-2 minutes before every pull is excessive. I mean this in the most polite way possible: any time I've seen a tank do that, it meant they didn't really know how to tank.

[Obysuca]

The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

^ This. Now, while I've never pulled as dps, there has been a few times where I've wanted to. Especially if it's a long dungeon and I get stuck with a tank (who's not new / no one's new) and they pull 1 group at a time / wait 1-2 minutes between each single pull. A few days ago, I ended up in DD, no one was new, everyone was 50+. The tank decided to pull 1 group at a time, then afk for 1-2 mins, then pull another group. It took about 45 minutes to get to the 2nd boss.

[Makeda]

The tank does not set the flow.
The party sets the flow.
If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive.
If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead."

The healer may think he can keep you alive. But that healer isn't looking at your cooldown bar and at the setup you're looking at.

Every tank has a different style to how they position and handle pulls - and when somebody else does the pull, it can seriously gimp that.

That tank DOES set the flow. Don't like it? Play Guild Wars 1 or 2. No tanks in those games.

When I want to run in 5 different directions chasing down mobs because "random" has done the pull and gone all over the place with it... I log into my Guild Wars 2 account...

The entire purpose of having a tank in a game's design is to put that flow control into the hands of a single person, for a coordinated effort, a tactical battle rather than a chaotic gang-fight.

When other people pull...

Well I have /sit on my action bar for a reason. GO ahead and votekick me. My queue is instant.

The only exceptions to this are in MMO games with content largescale/complex enough to require a raid leader. And then... the raidleader sets who does the pull and how. STILL NOT the party.

[Mikhaill]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

I hope I never party with you as a tank, ever. I do not need your help to pull mobs.
I'm a tank, that's my job. Tanks set the pace, sorry, don't like? You tank.
My first 51 dungeon run was horrible because 2 DPS's forced me go out my zone and tried to pull more when I was literally stressed out from hell on it.
I left because that's pure BS. I do ask at times now since 51+ mobs hit harder, if the healer needs smaller or bigger pulls though.
Or sometimes I go on ahead, try a good pull and if they struggle, the next mobs I'll pull smaller ones.

[AriaEnia]

" I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset.

I'm also tired of the DPSes or healers who have "me, me, me" mindset so they like to pull all monsters before the tank.

[Gyson]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

This is a horrible response, and it's scary that it received so many up-votes. While I do feel every run is supposed to be a team effort, the tank's role in that team is to control the enemy units whilst the damage-dealers eliminate them.

Thus, it is best left up to the tank to decide how comfortable s/he is with the pace of that role, how much they think they can comfortably control, etc, provided that tank is not making things difficult for everyone else (e.g. not excessively pulling to the point of generating more injury than the healer is comfortable repairing, for example).

Note that not pulling the next encounter fast enough to satisfy someone's need for instant gratification is not a reasonable example of "making things difficult". The last thing a team needs to deal with is someone's lack of patience. And if that someone can't spare the time for a dungeon run that can potentially take up to 90 minutes, don't queue for one in the first place.

[seekified]

A lot of caster players in particular seem to have become very trigger happy lately - when I play WAR these days, it's very common to see AoEs flying into a trash group when I've only had time to aggro one out of five mobs. It's insanely annoying, particularly when you get trashtalked for not taking aggro off them quickly enough.

[Amberyl]

This is a horrible response, and it's scary that it received so many up-votes.

Not so much, to be honest. Outside of the raids, a couple of specific sync'ed dungeons, and some of the trials, the majority of content in this game is incredibly easy. If the DPS and Healer regularly clear an instance in much less time than the current tank is taking, I can understand the frustration. I'm a long-term tank player myself, and I'll be the first to admit just how easy it is to over-focus on the role, and lose track of (other people's) time (that you're spending.)

Not everything has to be perfect. And one guy wanting to jump through all the hoops cleanly for fear of being blamed if it goes wrong otherwise, doesn't make that okay for the other three who need to get to bed before work the following morning. If anything, the amount of up-votes the comment got is probably more reflective of the dissatisfaction players feel, when they're forced to repeat two year old content for the benefit of newcomers, just to gear up at end game.

Vertical progression is such a horrid development trait in MMO. At least with the current run of patches, PvP has been a side-option to avoid burning out on the Duty Finder.

/devilsadvocate