Suggestion - Increase PLD Healing Support, not Dps

[Phoenicia]

I suppose you think WAR step on your toes with there instant Equilibrium, Second Wind or Inner Beast ?

WAR was designed to be a self-healing tank that took more damage that never reduced damage. In 2.1 it got "buffed" to mitigate damage with a mix of increasing max HP and reducing damage intake. Its "mitigation" now is on-par or slightly ahead of PLD, true. But WAR is behind PLD (and DRK) in effective healing. 4% on spells and 20% on abilities. Effective healing falls behind hard when ToB is used without Convalescence. If you don't understand why WAR has self heals that they can't use on others is NOT stepping on healers' toes, you need to think more about tank balance.

Equilibrium, Second Wind, Blood Bath and Inner Beast heals are not boosted by Defiance either. None of these heals, are as effective as Clemency. Specially when every time a PLD increases its own EHP, it increases the effective healing by the same amount.

[winsock]

Too bad you don't see my other character

I really don't understand why you still insist to oppose tank and healers...

OOO a lvl 50, im so impressed with your other character lol.

hahaha so are you saying that you know what you're asking is ridiculous?
PLD is already a better tank and a better healer than SMN, you can spam cure if you really wanted to and be about as effective as a SMN + you have DV and Clemency on top of that.
Allowing a PLD to replace a healer goes way too far.
Would you have a problem with giving WHM the ability to be a viable offtank and take a tanking slot? I would hope you have a problem with it, but you cant say that its okay for a PLD to take a healer spot, but not okay for a WHM to take a tank spot

Let's keep roles in this role playing game. You cant have you cake and eat it too.

[Reynhart]

OOO a lvl 50, im so impressed with your other character lol.

Yeah, sound like you past that point aaaages, ago. And like it's not enough to no precisely how instant heals works...

Would you have a problem with giving WHM the ability to be a viable offtank and take a tanking slot? I would hope you have a problem with it, but you cant say that its okay for a PLD to take a healer spot, but not okay for a WHM to take a tank spot

Wow, you still talk about healer tanking...After several times, you still don't understand what I'm saying, impressive.

Would I have a problem giving WHM the ability to tank ? Yes, I would.
Would I have a problem giving a lesser DPS the ability to be a back-up tank ? No, I wouldn't
Would I have a problem giving a lesser Healer the ability to be a back-up DPS ? No, I wouldn't
It's not an opposition from tank and healer, it's a circle Tank -> Healer -> DPS -> Tank.


The problem is, if all jobs are just doing the same things included in their role, then one of them will be the absolute best of them. If tanks only survive and do damage, as long as every one of them can survive, then the best DPS is the best one.

But, maybe I can simply be condescending like you, and say that your tanks are not high enough than you can really see the problem...

[winsock]

...

My example is a circle too:
PLD capabilities: tank > healer > dps
SMN capabilities: dps > tank > healer
WHM capabilities: healer > dps > tank.

Only thing is that because PLD does contribute a significant amount of dps:
the SMN would need to be buffed to bewould to contribute a significant amount of healing, and the WHM would need buffed to be able to contribute a significant amount of tanking.

You want PLD to be able to make substantial contributions to tanking, healing, and dpsing, but when other classes are pushed up to the same lvl as your proposal for PLD you have a problem with it. Your proposal isn't balanced.

[Reynhart]

You want PLD to be able to make substantial contributions to tanking, healing, and dpsing, but when other classes are pushed up to the same lvl as your proposal for PLD you have a problem with it. Your proposal isn't balanced.

Actually, I' haven't said really much about PLD contributing to DPS...
The only time I did was to answer another idea, were I even suggested to change Sword Oath to have a lesser effect on overall DPS than now
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Sword Oath should increase potency of all actions by 20%. With our auto-attack speed, the effect would be slightly less than what it is now, BUT, it would benefit the enmity gain of weapon skills, for those would like to tank in Sword Oath once in a while, AND, would also boost the potencies of oGCD skill, like Circle Of Scorn and Spirits Within, AND, more importantly for this topic, would also boost the potency of Clemency, thus making it more viable to keep the main tank alive.

IF pld were buffed to be a competent back healer, It would be totally balanced and justified to cripple its DPS. And it would also separate WAR and PLD more, to give each tank a proper identity.
I even suggested in another topic that the overall DPS of two tanks+two healers+4 DPS would be the same as one main tank+one PLD+one healer+ 5 DPS, meaning that, of course, PLD would do less DPS as an OT than it is now.
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Will the PLD OT deal far less damage than the WAR ? Yeah, sure, but it allows you to bring one DPS instead of a second healer, and forcing your first healer to be 100% healing throughout the fight, for an overall same party DPS.

[RadRyder]

I was thinking again of this topic, and thought of the following changes to make the current PLD skillset more interesting (and effective?):

Shield Oath:
- Certain skills now grant stacks of "Vanguard", up to 5 stacks. Each stack grants Block rate +2%

Sword Oath:
- Certain skills now grant stacks of "Rear Guard", up to 5 stacks. Each stack increases Sword Oath potency by 5

Clemency:
- Cast: Instant, on-GCD
- Heal Potency: 1200
- Consumes 5 stacks of "Vanguard"/"Rear Guard". Additional effect is applied based on current stance:
-- Shield Oath: Target gains a barrier equal to 50% of HP healed
-- Sword Oath: Target gains a "Damage +5%" buff for 15 seconds

[winsock]

...

If you don't buff the other jobs you need to balance yourself by similar proportions.

You're going to need to go further than a change to sword oath. You need to be as poor of a dps as a SMN is a healer. Are you willing to give up more than half of your average dps? (Upping enmity modifiers of course)

Also, your healing would need to be only as good as titan's tanking, who doesn't have access to some of the more useful/needed tank skills like provoke or HG, which further supports not making clemency insta-cast.

[NFaelivrin]

snip

Your nonsense about PLD stepping on Healer toes is tiring. Do you realize that even if Clemency was instant-cast, which I don't advocate, its still a somewhat worse Cure 2 with such a prohibitive MP cost that you can, in a best case scenario, get two off before you have to wait for Riot Blade and Sheltron to let you use it again? Your argument about Summoner is pretty silly too because while Summoner's physick is fairly damn bad, its a DPS class with a freaking combat resurrection, and nobody's stopped taking healers just because SMN can occasionally raise people. Do people stop taking Scholars because of Divine Veil?

[Reynhart]

You're going to need to go further than a change to sword oath. You need to be as poor of a dps as a SMN is a healer. Are you willing to give up more than half of your average dps? (Upping enmity modifiers of course)

For once, I'll use the stock phrase. "I'm a tank, my DPS is not a priority"
More seriously, if that can make an interesting new setup, yes, I don't care losing most of my DPS. You see, I played FFXI for years, so I'm used of a PLD doing garbage damage.

Also, your healing would need to be only as good as titan's tanking, who doesn't have access to some of the more useful/needed tank skills like provoke or HG, which further supports not making clemency insta-cast.

I'd still won't have an AoE healing, a status ailment removal spell, or a HoT. That's lacking some of the more useful skill.
What I'd like, though, is the removal of the in-battle raise trait, since it's a pure nonsense that CNJ is the only class who need it.

A faster Clemency could allow PLD to heal the main tank...even if it is the main tank, while still needing the (solo) healer to provide Esuna or Regen.

What could be more interesting, though, is to offer PLD the option to specialize in MND, by still tying healing potency to MND. If you equip your right side full MND, you'll naturally lose most of your DPS potential. This way, PLD could still do some damage or provide good healing support, but not both at the same time.

[winsock]

...

Lol that dps drop will make PLD the worst tank to get in 4 man roulettes.

At any rate, what titan lacks are saves amoungst other things, just like eos and Selene also lack saves. No reason to give a PLD one.