Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[Kikoten]

What to do with bad DPS is turn it into good DPS.

[Erim-Nelhah]

Someone mentioned a tank parsing and bashing DPS for bad performance when said DPS were doing fine for the fights at hand...If I were in a party where something similar happened, I'd report the person bashing. Here's the thing: I would report for harrassment regardless of whether or not the parser was legal, and currently I would actually put a note in the report asking the GM to tell the player that I didn't report him for using a parser, but rather for abusing players, and don't really care if he uses a parser or not. And I would expect the GM to take some form of action, even if it's just a verbal warning, regardless of the legality of parsers.

I've played WoW, and WoW has parsers. WoW also has a community that's about on par with the one here, believe it or not. I can count the number of times when parsers were truly abused in parties I was in on one finger. Did PF equivalents exist that said "Do X DPS or kick"? Yes, they did, and I avoided the HPS equivalents (because people saying "pull X hps" don't understand how healing works). They also exist here, already, believe it or not. I personally have no qualms about kicking someone for performing badly - and would expect to get kicked (or asked to leave) myself if I was consistently doing so.

Also, yes, I use a parser on occasion, mostly for content with DPS checks that matter (Bis EX with the "only viable method"). I don't generally call people out on DPS, tho I'll mention that they need to check their rotations if they're really underperforming, and I'll stop and kick/abandon/leave as appropriate if we don't have the DPS and nobody's improving. If an in-game parser (or add-ons allowing one) were implemented, I'd probably be a bit quicker to mention that the DPS is underperforming, but I would do my best not to sound mean/condescending about it. Would everyone? No, but that's what thick skins, votekick in DF, and (if it's abusive enough) the report button are for (and again, I would still expect GMs to handle abuse/harrassment cases appropriately).

--Erim Nelhah

[Jim_Berry]

Square-Enix messed up and made almost every friggin battle a DPS-check.

Coming from Final Fantasy XI, DC Universe, and even playing Neverwinter, it mostly wasn't about how fast we needed to kill things, so long as it died. Not sure why there are so many DPS-checks in Final Fantasy XIV. This is why I just try to play casually now. I used to stay up to date on everything, but I just started Heavensward yesterday.

I got complaints about my DPS in the past, but I don't care anymore. I tried to play PLD, but folks don't give room for learning nowadays, so I stick with NIN.

[starLivitation]

i dont see the problem here, this game cares for casual crown more than the hard core. the savage was made for a miniroty of player base, dps isn't really important. this game offers a lot of things. if there is bad dps u can simply avoid them, play with ur friends who u know can do their job. when the dps is bad for the encounter u are trying, then exit politly and find another pt.

Square-Enix messed up and made almost every friggin battle a DPS-check.

they are called extreme battles, and if there is no dps check in them, then that would be ultra stupid. what i do have a problem is, there is no in-between mode. normal alexander is ultra easy and boring. while savage u need to be on top of ur game. there is nothing for casuals and players in between, u may say for them is normal mode, but normal mode is like ultra easy really more like ct kind of stuff. so it's either savage or nothing , there is nothign else to do.

[LunaHoshino]

i don't udnerstand why these days developers tend to give out such short-living content, people have been workign back then just as much as they do now, so the excuse that they don't have the time because of RL is a bad example.

Actually, that's untrue. Gaming used to be primarily the domain of kids and teenagers, but the average age of gamers has been going up as the people who started playing video games when they were kids have grown up and kept on playing games. Now the average gamer is in their 30s, meaning they most likely have a full-time job and a family and therefore may not be able to devote large chunks of time to gaming in a single sitting. Developers aren't stupid-- they're going to develop content that is appealing to the largest demographic, which is now adults instead of teenagers.

[SpookyGhost]

Can't read all these pages, only made it to page 8 and I'm already seeing repeated stuff. In fact, what I'm about to say will probably be a repeat of something, but I'd like to say it anyway.

The bad DPS aren't at fault here. SE is.

For some strange and curious reason, SE decided to throw DPS checks in every hard fight yet gave no one a way to measure how much DPS they were doing or any indication of how much is needed to beat the check.

Easy example, Warlord Shell in Ravana. The only thing you know is that you need to do enough damage to the shell to break it. How much damage? Are you contributing enough? Are others? You have no idea, you just hope and pray that it breaks. If it doesn't, what then? Give out general advice of 'we need more damage during WS'? What if the person (or people) who are holding the group back believe that they're not the ones causing the wipes and they're doing as much as they can? Do you kick them? If so, how do you know they're the ones causing it and not someone else?

It's dumb. You can scream harassment all you want, but as long as they implement DPS checks that need to be met in nearly every hard encounter in the game, people are going to complain about bad DPS not knowing what they're doing. This game sucks at incentivizing you to play well so when the time finally comes when you need to, you're kicked from the group and you wonder what's happened. I'd legitimately hate to be any player out there who expects the game to teach them how to play it and doesn't go the extra mile (like many of us have) to learn their class/job on their own, including researching optimization of their rotation and learning fights before even attempting them. That should be optional, that should not be a requirement.

Fight design in this game is a mess. It honestly is. There either needs to be an in-game parser or they need to stop implementing so many DPS checks. There is no reason why an MMO in this day and age should have such little information available to the player.

[Olil]

Actually, that's untrue. Gaming used to be primarily the domain of kids and teenagers, but the average age of gamers has been going up as the people who started playing video games when they were kids have grown up and kept on playing games. Now the average gamer is in their 30s, meaning they most likely have a full-time job and a family and therefore may not be able to devote large chunks of time to gaming in a single sitting. Developers aren't stupid-- they're going to develop content that is appealing to the largest demographic, which is now adults instead of teenagers.

That's probably the most insightful, wise thing I've read on the forums. It's true. I've been playing games since I was...don't remember but I'm almost 27 and still playing. I have a full time job and other commitments. You is so right.
#awestruck

[Jim_Berry]

Newsflash: that's not the case. Because that guy that's not doing as much damage as you, or even as much as another DPS, might actually be doing mechanics and helping the party to avoid a wipe, y'know.

I remember when I was a BRD back when the Ex Primals of Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan were a thing. Only me and the PLD were left while fighting Ifrit. Just as I lost my last bit of HP, Ifrit died from a tick of my Venomous Bite. Instead of cheers, the BLM said "he'd been dead if ur dmg didnt suck" lol... Although my damage was probably low, my survival rate was extremely high compared to the other DPS. Oh well!

[Gilraen]

I remember when I was a BRD back when the Ex Primals of Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan were a thing. Only me and the PLD were left while fighting Ifrit. Just as I lost my last bit of HP, Ifrit died from a tick of my Venomous Bite. Instead of cheers, the BLM said "he'd been dead if ur dmg didnt suck" lol... Although my damage was probably low, my survival rate was extremely high compared to the other DPS. Oh well!

Differences in mindsets... that kind of win would have me cheering, the elation of snatching victory from defeat is second to none.

[CrimsonThunder]

I swear the mindset here makes me think of my primary school playground days. If you wanted to play football but you weren't very good at it then you didn't get to play football because the other kids said so.

Let's say you get your 'lock'....how many subscriptions get lost because a less skilful is hit by a wall designed for only the better 10%? Suddenly people don't wanna play.

Then you come screaming on the forums that the game is dead.

This is a social game designed to try and appease everyone. Just....deal with it or move on.