Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[Aomine1992]

Those dps checks do suck but honestly I was happy to have more of a role in the game in 3.0 then just 1 2 3 boss dead, now dps have to be actively involved and consistently improving look at a1 and a4 I love em...someone said it already but I had something like a teacher for my 3.0 rotations especially jumping from healer to dps lol but it's all about helping those who want to improve and leaving those who don't behind harsh but you can't force anyone to improve.

[Hyrist]

However many of these same people whos hand needs to be held are those same people playing victim when they never improve and never progress. At some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves and their performance.

While your statement is true in the worse case scenario. This particular instance you're trying to pass off as common simply is not. Communication and an effort into reaching an understanding is never wrong - even if the individual winds up being uncooperative. You simply move on. (And kick the individual if necessary.)

At no point should it be given as an excuse for complete change in demeanor to just offhandedly reject every person who preforms poorly. Some are genuinely struggling and would benefit the group greatly for the extra help and attention.

As far as respecting people's time, I already stated that in my previous statement:

What I propose, with respect to everyone's time - is that we attempt to assist in the improvement of players in DPS in a respectful and understanding manner

As far as Parsers go; Until Square Enix changes their official stance on them, they're a scarlet letter. That's a hard fact. Do I feel as if they are a helpful tool if properly utilized? Yes, I agree with you. As well as the requisite maturity that we as a community lack.

One such way I could be convinced otherwise on the maturity argument, is a change in tone on how we deal with under-performers. There is a way where we can respectfully decline them out of high end raids they are struggling in, while at the same time offering help in developing their skills. Effort in that vein could go a long way to improving both our community image as well as our average player skill level. Two Zu's with one stone.

[sirDarts]

<devil's advocate mode> Depending on the content, lazy healers and tanks can get carried too. Also the DPS can easily cause wipes by tapping out the healer's resources either by taking too much avoidable damage or taking so long to kill the boss that simple attrition does the group in. </devil's advocate mode>

I like the idea of the personal parser. I definitely want to know how well I'm doing.

Yes, of course there are exceptions, but they are few and far between.
In most of the content where Healers and Tanks can slack, so can DPS.

As for taking avoidable damage: That is a problem for anyone, no just DPS, anyone who takes avoidable damage can cause a wipe.

You're making it sound like a dungeon run is really stressful for healers/tanks. Last I checked, everything outside the hardest content was a faceroll for all classes. If you're implying that dps can be lazy on any actual difficult content, oh how wrong you are.

I do think we should have a proper personal parser so everyone can step up their game. What I don't believe in is all the healers/tanks implying that a no-brainer dungeon run requires much effort. Playing good has nothing to do with it, when all classes can play considerably bad on 90% of the content and still clear it. Arguably the average dungeon DPS is the weakest link on average, but should we really waste our breath over who has it the easiest on easy content?

Stressful? Not really, unless you are on the very edge of ilvl required for the content. But if you slack, and don't pull your weight, you will likely cause a wipe as both tank as healer. As DPS? Not really.


But yeah agree with both of you, a personal parser would be a great addition.

[Kallera]

Are people also looking for ways to get people to not play? I keep hearing about people extolling the need to ditch and kick others.

[Cakekizy]

Single-player RPGs won't even let you access the main story that we can freely see in FFXIV unless you defeat grueling bosses.

Major difference being, in most single player games you can level past the fight and here we are limited by level sync.

[LunaHoshino]

Major difference being, in most single player games you can level past the fight and here we are limited by level sync.

You can level past it with gear. T9, for instance, is an absolute joke in i120/i130 gear compared to what it was in i110 stuff.

[Black_Rose]

Longer fights lead to raid fatigue, which increases the chances of people messing up. And if you mess up in the final phase of a 20+ minute fight, that's at least another 15 minutes just to get back to the point in the fight where you messed up so you can try again.

A lot of players aren't going to find something like that fun.

well, it's pretty much the same as now then.just that now, players, especially DPS are forced to remember certain combinations of skills to put out the right amount of DPS, totoally ignoring each individuals playstyle.
you simply can't force a certain playstyle on someone, and that's the whole reason why parsers won't change much about that.
i don't know, i grew up with MMOs sending you into dungeons that took 1-3 hrs with a boss at the end, and it seemed more fun.i don't udnerstand why these days developers tend to give out such short-living content, people have been workign back then just as much as they do now, so the excuse that they don't have the time because of RL is a bad example.content that takes a longer time to complete was usually completed once or twice a week, but now i can go and finish my alexander loot in a single day.

i might be a bit old fashioned, but to me it just seems that it's not healthy for a game to try and create content that feels like a race to the finish line.
especially not if there were already fights like ifrit/garuda/titan etc that didn't punish you for being slow, but simply got harder after a certain point, making its players trying to complete it faster before the danger of a wipe grew too big.

[LunarEmerald]

All endgame stuff should require a dps trial to complete to participate. It doesn't need to be steep, it just requires you to do adequate dps. A simple training game with an enemy with aoes to dodge while you try to make the dps requirement. The game already locks content behind ilevels, why not skill level too? Savage already does this with Faust.

No echo to help you if you fail. Friends can't help you. It's a single player duty and completion is required to do Alexander or any extreme primals. You have 5 minutes to do x dps, enough to kill the enemy before the timer reaches 0. If you can't then you have no business doing the content and would only waste people's time.

[Darkstride]

All endgame stuff should require a dps trial to complete to participate. It doesn't need to be steep, it just requires you to do adequate dps. A simple training game with an enemy with aoes to dodge while you try to make the dps requirement. The game already locks content behind ilevels, why not skill level too? Savage already does this with Faust.

No echo to help you if you fail. Friends can't help you. It's a single player duty and completion is required to do Alexander or any extreme primals. You have 5 minutes to do x dps, enough to kill the enemy before the timer reaches 0. If you can't then you have no business doing the content and would only waste people's time.

I'm reminded of The Secret World's Gatekeeper.

http://unfair.co/gaming/the-secret-w...he-gatekeeper/


This was a solo trial with 3 versions - DPS, Tank and Healer. In order to unlock Nightmare dungeons (hard mode), you needed to complete one of these 3 challenges to be given access. They weren't overly difficult but they did challenge players to make sure that they were atleast capable of performing their job so that they didn't hinder groups trying to complete Nightmare content.

The DPS one required you dodge patterned AoE and have a certain amount of sustained DPS, while also purging the boss of a one-shot buff. You also had to avoid an add that spawned and could one-shot you. You could bind it, heavy it, or just run but you had to continue sustained damage before enrage. In TSW you can move while casting, though.

The tank challenge had you basically tanking the boss. A "good" add attacks the boss and you need to keep aggro, stun a tank-buster and pick up bad adds.

The healer challenge had you healing a dummy target that attacks the boss. You have to heal and cleanse debuffs.

I think it worked quite well. I know Maat from FFXI is a common comparison, this one is just a little more of a standard test than a job-specific one.

[Tyrial]

Because being slightly under 'best' is so debilitating for your group. Quit being so melodramatic. You want to play that way? Fine, it's your playstyle, and if you like the paint-by-numbers method, more power to you. What I disagree with is the expectation that everyone else should do the same. That's just unrealistic and, frankly, idiotic.

Heaven forbid we be allowed to have any kind of a personality or unique playstyle. If it's not optimal, then clearly we're not playing the game properly.

While this may have already been pointed out I honestly didn't feel like reading through the whole 14+ pages right away...

what you call "Paint by numbers" I see as a true work of art. There is nothing more beautiful in this game than seeing a DPS, Tank or healer completely on point with their rotations and pushing themselves to be as efficient as they can possibly be. I'm not talking about World First perfection, but simply players who understand their Job to the point where they can be more than just their "role" in a party.