Anyone else feel like DRK is a bit lacking in PvP?

[Atreus]

PvP isn't only about the damage you can do. Utility is just as important.

Miss you dude!

[Houston009]

Haha, miss you too. I'll pvp a lot more once the raid is done.

[Februs]

Maybe I'm playing wrong, but I actually find Drk to be better than PLD.
As a PLD, I run around stun locking people and throwing up debuffs with full swing. Skill speed/attack power are WAY too low to do much dmg, so, I usually just eat their stoneskin with spirits within and let the angry mob that's following me do the rest.
As Drk I feel like I can actually be more help. Drop salted earth on nodes. Pop Blood weapon when dealing dmg to lone targets. Pop blood price when charging a big group (for distraction purposes). Remember to use Dark arts whenever Mp is high. As long as I remember to disengage after each dip into the fray and keep Blood wep/price up during siphon blade assaults, I almost never run out of Mp in a match. Being able to close distance with plunge and follow it up with a stun is awesome too. I usually average around 2-3 kills and maybe 1 death per match... Dunno if that's good or bad for a tank.

[Maxwell]

• DRKs arent bad in PvP. Most dont know how to bring value to the party.
• Living dead is not bad. Self purify/remote purify/Bene or simple heal bombs. What? you're not near(or out of range of) your party/healer ? You are doing something wrong.
• MP needs to remain an issue since a drk can deny fucking tomeliths for prolonged periods of time.

Most people seem to think tanks are some kind of a better melee dps, that they dont need the party anymore, that they can just solo shit, rush in whole mobs of enemies without any consequences and run around like headless chickens,etc. How many times do i see tanks running around alone trying to hit everybody mindlessly....

A good tank defends his party, by locking people in place, detering melees who chage in, protecting objectives, etc. If you dont like that, change jobs. I dont like telling people how to enjoy their play style, but there is a limit. Dont use a fork to eat a soup.

[Domira]

A good tank defends his party, by locking people in place, detering melees who chage in, protecting objectives, etc. If you dont like that, change jobs. I dont like telling people how to enjoy their play style, but there is a limit. Dont use a fork to eat a soup.

Drk lacks group utility and the ability to lock down targets. I do agree with many of the points you bring up though.

[kisada]

drk doesn't really have lockdown or teamfight utility the way a pld does. so far all intents and purposes, they are really just a tanky melee dps.


i think, as is the case with many games, it can be difficult to know the potential of a job until someone actually does it first and paves the way. there's one particular player on my DC who routinely picks up 20 kill games on drk like it's nothing and if he actually had good, consistent teammates and heals he'd probably already have had a 30 kill game or two. to be honest, i consider that to be an eventuality anyway.

if drk had chain stuns or cover or whatever else like pld, i'd say sure try to use it as more of a support tank. but if you look at the abilities afforded to it, it's basically a tanky drg. you can do big, big things with dark knight.

[Ditto]

drk doesn't really have lockdown or teamfight utility the way a pld does. so far all intents and purposes, they are really just a tanky melee dps.


i think, as is the case with many games, it can be difficult to know the potential of a job until someone actually does it first and paves the way. there's one particular player on my DC who routinely picks up 20 kill games on drk like it's nothing and if he actually had good, consistent teammates and heals he'd probably already have had a 30 kill game or two. to be honest, i consider that to be an eventuality anyway.

if drk had chain stuns or cover or whatever else like pld, i'd say sure try to use it as more of a support tank. but if you look at the abilities afforded to it, it's basically a tanky drg. you can do big, big things with dark knight.

The problem with going off of kills alone is, most kills in Frontlines especially aren't 1 on 1. You could literally run around just to attempt to final hit as Drk, especially with C&S and rack up kills so quickly.

Last hits are what kills are, and they're a terrible way to determine what place a class is in. Unless we're talking about summoners. It only takes common sense to know that they're a tad bit ridiculous right now.

Anyway ya, Drk is definitely more DPS-like. They're just as selfish a role in PvP as they are in PvE.

[kisada]

not sure where i said anything about 1v1 or going off on kills alone. i was talking about job potential of a tank that borders on the dps-side. there is really no other way to quantify its effectiveness other than to talk about kills and damage, so to dismiss the job based on its only real barometer doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Xenosan]

Maybe I'm playing wrong, but I actually find Drk to be better than PLD.
As a PLD, I run around stun locking people and throwing up debuffs with full swing. Skill speed/attack power are WAY too low to do much dmg, so, I usually just eat their stoneskin with spirits within and let the angry mob that's following me do the rest.

Relating to Ditto and Kisada are talking about with group kills - that's how you can rack kills up with PLD too. It's a little selfish, but if you're a PLD locking down a target with Shield Bash IMO it's within your right to be selfish and save your OGCDs for when the target 10-15% and get the kill credit final blow > glory/full/spirits. Like you said about the lower dmg of PLD, High/Fever turns that around and things like CoS/ShieldBash actually start being significant damage. Feel the bonus of High/Fever on tank job more than DPS which is enjoyable.

The thing with PLD that's rough is the 120(?) TP cost of Shield Bash. Icarus Wings only return 300 TP, so they've got rough mobility issues. DRK is also limited to just Enliven and Icarus Wings. And regarding mobility.. as nice as Plunge is, Tempered Will can be used in place of purify when you get rooted/heavied and that can be pretty clutch. Usually after Battle High, my most used ability is Shield Lob, cuz people start just running away from a High/Fever'd PLD.

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Don't think DRK/DRG is a accurate comparison, but I would just to say that after rolling DRK I went back to DRG because it's a similar rotation but better.. No MP Gate or proc micro to factor into rotation, Fetter Ward vs No CC resist/recover (which is pretty sad considering one is a DPS, the other a TANK)...

The stance dancing of DRK.. Idk.. I ended up just leaving it on, the GCD & MP loss of dancing is pretty unforgiving. Some of these 1vs1 stories.. Sounds like a 20-30+ GCD encounter. Most 1vs1 needs to end in 10-15. After 30 seconds either you or they are getting reinforced.. and at 20+ GCD encounter odds are they were doing their job in holding you up on the road. By then you needed to be elsewhere.

[Vandril]

and at 20+ GCD encounter odds are they were doing their job in holding you up on the road. By then you needed to be elsewhere.

I agree with a fair bit of what you said, but this in particular strikes me as a little logically unsound.

In order to keep you there, they also need to stay there with you. Stalling has a cost. If a player is skilled enough to stall you for long enough while playing the same/a similar role as you (Tank and DPS), then chances are they are about as skilled as you. The net gain on your part is about as strong for you stalling him/her as it is for them with him/her stalling you. Which basically evens out, in most cases, to a net difference of nil.

The story would be different if you end up losing this prolonged fight, or if that one enemy is stalling more than just one of your team members. Granted, the opposite is also true.