Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[Hyrist]

A little more 'hand holding' may go a long way in resolving this problem. A lot of people are left on their own to improved with nothing but a video guide to teach them. That doesn't meet everyone's learning methods. Some people learn best from human interaction.

And I'd say we've got a problem with people adapting to level 60 play across all classes. DPS is the worst right now because endgame has some pretty hard DPS checks and those are fairly obvious when they fail. It does not help that Alexander Savage requires gear levels above the average right now.

So there is a lot of added pressure for DPS, and a lot of players play DPS because they want to avoid the pressure associated typically with healers and Tanks.

What I propose, with respect to everyone's time - is that we attempt to assist in the improvement of players in DPS in a respectful and understanding manner. Some of the best endgame players I've seen in MMOs were coached, brought up from no skill at all, and were invested into patiently to help them establish their skills.

If it is at all possible for people, take the time to do so. Game Progression isn't going anywhere. We're on a six month cycle and most people still have to catch up to what's available to them. If you can find it in yourself to do so, please help others catch up in method and mindset. While there will inevitably be those not respectable to feedback, on the whole we only stand to benefit as a community by being welcoming and patient to those willing to learn and improve.

[Darkstride]

A little more 'hand holding' may go a long way in resolving this problem. A lot of people are left on their own to improved with nothing but a video guide to teach them.

However many of these same people whos hand needs to be held are those same people playing victim when they never improve and never progress. At some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves and their performance.

No amount of bickering or back-and-forth discussion is going to change the fact that this is an online multi-player game and that each player's performance can and will affect how others experience the game. One person CAN cause a wipe. If they do so repeatedly without taking any personal responsibility and continue to move forward with no intent on improving, then they are a bad player. It doesn't only apply to DPS, however there are some strict DPS checks in the game and a certain threshold has to be met or you simply aren't doing what is needed to progress.

Respecting other players' time and game play experience goes both ways. Good players can offer assistance to under-performers, but then those players need to accept it and learn and grow. Instead they often pull the "I play how I want cause I pay for the game" nonsense. Those players also need to respect others time and realize that they could very well be having a negative effect on other players experiences. No one is special, we all pay for the same game so get over it.

In the end, I think parsers are a good idea if they are utilized properly. Players should use them for personal growth and understanding. However, as it has been discussed before, that requires a certain degree of maturity and mutual respect that the community as a whole is not likely to reach. It also requires players to take responsibility for their own actions and performance, but it's apparently easier to place the blame on others.

[Hyrist]

However many of these same people whos hand needs to be held are those same people playing victim when they never improve and never progress. At some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves and their performance.

While your statement is true in the worse case scenario. This particular instance you're trying to pass off as common simply is not. Communication and an effort into reaching an understanding is never wrong - even if the individual winds up being uncooperative. You simply move on. (And kick the individual if necessary.)

At no point should it be given as an excuse for complete change in demeanor to just offhandedly reject every person who preforms poorly. Some are genuinely struggling and would benefit the group greatly for the extra help and attention.

As far as respecting people's time, I already stated that in my previous statement:

What I propose, with respect to everyone's time - is that we attempt to assist in the improvement of players in DPS in a respectful and understanding manner

As far as Parsers go; Until Square Enix changes their official stance on them, they're a scarlet letter. That's a hard fact. Do I feel as if they are a helpful tool if properly utilized? Yes, I agree with you. As well as the requisite maturity that we as a community lack.

One such way I could be convinced otherwise on the maturity argument, is a change in tone on how we deal with under-performers. There is a way where we can respectfully decline them out of high end raids they are struggling in, while at the same time offering help in developing their skills. Effort in that vein could go a long way to improving both our community image as well as our average player skill level. Two Zu's with one stone.

[Asmodai]

While your statement is true in the worse case scenario. This particular instance you're trying to pass off as common simply is not. Communication and an effort into reaching an understanding is never wrong - even if the individual winds up being uncooperative. You simply move on. (And kick the individual if necessary.)

At no point should it be given as an excuse for complete change in demeanor to just offhandedly reject every person who preforms poorly. Some are genuinely struggling and would benefit the group greatly for the extra help and attention.
.

Most people who perform poorly are just poor players and they always will be. There is no point in wasting time on them, give them a few chances tell them you are dropping them because they are poor players and move on. The only time you will have a chance to improve someone is if they are new. No point in wasting time.

[T2teddy]

Most people who perform poorly are just poor players and they always will be. There is no point in wasting time on them, give them a few chances tell them you are dropping them because they are poor players and move on. The only time you will have a chance to improve someone is if they are new. No point in wasting time.

Wow after looking through many of the threads you've posted in, I have to say, you have a very poisonous attitude towards inexperienced players...
As for your comment about poor players not knowing the Alexander mechanics when it released...how the hell were they supposed to know them if it was a NEW instance? Nobody did.

[Asmodai]

Wow after looking through many of the threads you've posted in, I have to say, you have a very poisonous attitude towards inexperienced players...
As for your comment about poor players not knowing the Alexander mechanics when it released...how the hell were they supposed to know them if it was a NEW instance? Nobody did.

Maybe, I just dont like it that so many people dont know their limitations. Its like me jumping in the space shuttle and saying "I got this" then I cant even start it. I know I cant fly a space shuttle so i'm not even going to try. If I wanted to fly one, I would start from the beginning. Its cool if you are not the best dps to ever dps, I am fine with that. We can still run content and we can still be friends. If you ask for help I will give it but I am not going to take you to cutting edge content just for s's and g's. If you are just looking for a carry (Which is what you are doing when you dont know how to do not know your job very well) then you are being a straight up ahole. There are 7 other people you are screwing. Maybe they are not running a parser so they have no idea they are doing bad and its an offense you can get banned for if you tell them. So why do anything else than just move on?