Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[Katchoo]

That would be an excellent post, if those were the only two things I said.

I made an effort to point out how much I hated WM until I came to understand it, which was the entire point of the post, but I guess it's easier to just pick one or two phrases that you can contradict.

Maybe my post came off as a little to nit picky, that was not my intention. But something being fun IS subjective and me understanding how something plays does not automatically make it fun.

[RiceisNice]

...
I'm not sure if making BRD like a faster BLM would work out that well. WM was added so the job could be in a similar spot to where it was prior to Heavensward. Without that damage boost, the job would be further behind and excluded from even more groups. Would the faster cast times and reduced TP be enough to offset that? If SE could balance fluidity with staying relevant and balanced, that would be great. For now, I'll just work with what we have and be ready for any changes SE might make to BRD.

WM could increase damage by increasing your rate of fire, or how fast your weapon skills go out, rather than increasing how much each weaponskill does. Before, you'd only be able to do one weapon skill per 2.5s. They could've make WM reduce GCDs to 1.5, give attacks a cast time of 1.5 and reduce TP costs of attacks. You'd effectively increase your dps by increasing the amount of attacks you do. Of course, this is all assuming that they are tuned properly. Honestly this is just me speaking out of my gripe that GB and WM are both functionally the same abilities, (down to the channeling particle effects even, except bard gets a glowing hand and the color is different) which feels like a shoddy, halfassed implementation implementation on SE's side. Making one class turret with a 1.5 GCD, 1.5 cast time at a lower tp cost would go a long way in differentiating the two (and would work better on BRD, due to the nature of MCH shot procs)

Edit: Totally right wrong name in quote dude. All you tiny people look the same to a Roe :P

As a side not that i have mentioned before, one issue if have with WM is that you may have the option in a fight with a large amount of movement to turn off WM and in this situation you would be doing more DPS than with WM on, but this does not mean you are doing the same DPS. This might seem obvious but consider this, while your are not in WM you are effectively a 2.00 Bard in a 3.00 world while every other job remains a 3.0 job.

Welp. My post still takes your response into perspective I guess.

Read these two lines one after each other. Carefully.

He said that bard is slower. It isn't. I'm not sure why you're agreeing with me while trying to disagree with me. How does cramming all your cds into one gcd make bard faster? Like I said, you actually have to plan ahead now - therefore adding a new dimension into bard gameplay. Really, it sounds like you guys are grasping at straws, looking for reasons to complain.

90% of massive changes to gameplay fail. Wanderers minuet doesn't. Not only is it more fun, it is also more engaging and thoughtful. I'll say it again (even though i absolutely hate this phrase, but it 100% applies to the wanderers minuet complaints): learn to play. I didn't know how to play, and I complained and complained and complained. Now I get it, and i'm happy with it.

It doesn't make bard faster, but the interaction of oGCDs with cast times can make bard slower. If you use two oGCDs after a casted ability, you're delaying your next weaponskill. If you wanted to do optimal damage, you'd use bloodletter as soon as it resets or risk stacking the reset (especially if you're multi dotting)

And also, fun is subjective. And I also do not agree that it is "engaging" since I'm less inclined to be more attentive to my SS procs, and I do not agree that it's implementation was thoguhtful since it's a carbon copy of MCH's GB, and the amount of clashing it has with bard's orignial moveset shows no consideration for how they played previously and how cast times would interact with that.

And finally, stop saying that, please. I (and countless others probably) have said it countless times; Learning how to play has absolutely no influence on whether or not I enjoy BRD or not, mainly because I do know how to play bard. I full timed bard in 2.0. I leveled machinist as my first class. I leveled up my bard afterwards, and having prior knowledge to how machinist plays just exasperates how much of a hack job the implementation of WM toward bard really was.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

The main point is I think, BRD has changed. The priority system it follows is still the same, but the play style has changed a tad.

This is unlikely the change and will stay like this. So you have two choices: Adapt and play the class. Or play a different class.

No one is forcing you to play BRD, the choice is there for you to play something else.

Classes and gameplay will ALWAYS be changing, consistently throughout every patch and every expansion. The average players thought process on if they enjoy the style of the new rendition isn't the highest on their priority.

[Geardagas]

It doesn't always change so drastically, though. Wanderer's Minuet was a drastic change, and noone understands frustration with drastic change more than me. I utterly despise when people change something that works, just for the sake of changing things. It's literally why I quit WoW altogether.

I even leveled ninja all the way to 50 because I hated WM so much. But nostalgia made me give it a second chance. And now that I got it together, I think it's funner than it was in 2.X.

My only complaint is that i'm capping at @970 on faust while other classes are dropping @1100s. It's probably the most tired saying in the world at this point, but our utility doesn't warrant such low dps.

Funny how that works.

[Snowaeth]

The main point is I think, BRD has changed. The priority system it follows is still the same, but the play style has changed a tad.

This is unlikely the change and will stay like this. So you have two choices: Adapt and play the class. Or play a different class.

No one is forcing you to play BRD, the choice is there for you to play something else.

Classes and gameplay will ALWAYS be changing, consistently throughout every patch and every expansion. The average players thought process on if they enjoy the style of the new rendition isn't the highest on their priority.

Pretty much none of the people in the last few pages are complaining about the actual change.
They'r disliking the fact it changed, but that's not what they'r complaining about.

It's the skills that were not made for WM and feel unpolished/clunky/unrefined that most people that still play bard are complaining about.
Those that couldn't stand the change mostly already quit the job/game.

[Snowaeth]

It doesn't always change so drastically, though. Wanderer's Minuet was a drastic change, and noone understands frustration with drastic change more than me. I utterly despise when people change something that works, just for the sake of changing things. It's literally why I quit WoW altogether.

I even leveled ninja all the way to 50 because I hated WM so much. But nostalgia made me give it a second chance. And now that I got it together, I think it's funner than it was in 2.X.

My only complaint is that i'm capping at @970 on faust while other classes are dropping @1100s. It's probably the most tired saying in the world at this point, but our utility doesn't warrant such low dps.

Funny how that works.

With a DRG BRD pulls 1300+ on Faust and that's not even flawless.
Got some practicing to do there I think.

[Geardagas]

I really should have added a "inb4 ridiculously inflated number" disclaimer at the end of that post

[Snowaeth]

I really should have added a "inb4 ridiculously inflated number" disclaimer at the end of that post

I mean, this is from week 1 savage.
http://imgur.com/bPn6icL
1314, sure there's flaming arrow involved hitting adds, but that's it.

With current gear and more bard practice that number only goes up, not down.

[RapBreon]

*snip*

Not normally one to weigh into BRD related discussions; but to avoid false expectations it's probably best to share one of ACT's most useful functions.

ACT allows you to see how much single target damage you do to a particular target even with other mobs contaminating the parse. You can do this by;

Expanding the encounter (in this case 'Faust') > Looking for the mob you're interested in (in this cause you expand the second 'Faust' menu; there are two) > Go to incoming damage and right clicking 'look up by combatant'. It should then open up a second window that has your total damage done, DPS done, max hit, average and crit chance for that specific mob.

Free cleave (that is already part of your single target rotation) has a profound impact on overall DPS. For me personally, Dragonfire Dive and Geirskogul add an extra 200-300 DPS on Faust over the course of three minutes. Naturally, I do not pull 1500-1600 DPS on Faust (despite my meter telling me so on the occasion). Though I wish I did.

Being said 970 is actually rather low for Faust, assuming current gear, a DRG, pots and food. Our BRD does about 900ish...but he is...average. Our MCH does 1100ish and from my understanding the damage between the two classes is very similar?

[Velhart]

They should stay on WM, but take away the cast time on EA. Like how MCH have no cast time on their Gauss Round, but requires GB to be on.

Should be finding ways to make WM better on BRD, not trying to tear the system down. Also, are people upset they have a cast bar on abilities now....or are you mad that BRD has an actual skill cap now? I have my complaints on the system with BRD, but its something constructive criticism can help with. Its great to have, but needs to be cleaned up on BRD to make it feel more natural. For MCH though, GB does feel like it was built from the ground up for it.

Also, I am still able to be very mobile and efficient with GB. Its all in knowing the fight and understanding your abilities and cast bars and when its okay to move without clipping or interrupting your shot. Like I said, that skill cap level.