Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[RiceisNice]

Hrm, I feel that it doesn't break the pacing for me as I just roll with the punches. I always feel that I should adjust to any given situation and make the most of what I have.

True, that uninterrupted Straight Shot cast may not be ideal and should be fixed, but it's still better than not firing off an ability. I am currently making the most of it until something is done about it.

2.0 BRD was fun, but 3.0 brings a different flavour that's not as bad as some people embellish it to be. It just stresses following the priority system during moments when you may have to adjust, which keeps me on my toes more than merely reacting to procs ever will. Sometimes you just have to plan ahead for any contingency and be ready in advance for whatever happens. Animation locking is more noticeable now on BRD since we didn't have to worry about it so much before. Oddly enough, even though it feels like I'm clipping into my GCD just a little bit I'm still doing DPS that pleasantly surprises both myself and others who I play with.

If anything, SE should fix the Straighter Shot exploit and perhaps reduce animation locking like they did with DRG's Jump abilities. As for River of Blood, either WM needs to change to accommodate it, or the trait itself should change to be more viable in the stance. Either way, it's a delicate balancing issue for SE that needs to be treated with care. They probably want to avoid making BRDs too strong like they were back before 2.1, where BCoB groups demanded double BRD in their parties.

I really don't think that 3.0 stresses the priority system as much as it does funneling you to making split decisions on whether you can stay motile or not to deal more damage. It's just...when you are in WM, the flow of gameplay changes drastically and introduces all those little peeves I mentioned earlier.There's nothing inherently wrong with giving them cast times (i didn't even move that much pre3.0 as a bard), but the implementation of WM seems incredibly halfassed and gave no consideration to how bard played in 2.0, compared to machinist who was designed around it. I'm not staying on my toes that much because I'm looking out for fight mechanics at this point, not both the reactive procs (because I know i won't ever catch them in time even if I tried) and the fight mechanics itself.


Like...look at my screenshot. I have both heavyshot and Bloodletter as large icons in places where I can easily see it so I can keep track of my GCDs and bloodletter procs. Thats why I can get incredibly irritated by not being able to use my weaponskills when it's both off cooldown and I'm not asting anything. It's a pacebreaker and disrupts the flow. Seeing bloodletter cycle itself twice in a row when I'm in the middle of a cast from mutli-dotting is also pretty demoralizing as well.

WM can definitely use some adjustments to make it more natural in flow. i don't think animation changes would really help because you can't use any two abilties too close together (you can see this with buffs, and it has nothing to do with animations, it's universal across the board). Adjustments to River of Blood's function would definitely be a welcomed change. Let it boost the potency of your next bloodletter or something rather than reset it's cooldown.

Or make BRD play like a faster blackmage; give them a 1.5 GCD with 1.5s cast times, remove the damage bonus and reduce TP costs. Turn bloodletter/RoD into a weapon skill that becomes instant cast with procs. The way that you can channel empyreal arrow immediately after a hard-casted heavy shot? That feels much more natural than delaying your weaponskill because of doubled up oGCDs and I would've loved for bard to feel that smooth throughout. Or they could've made MCH into that since it was quite literally a clean slate to work with (and honestly was my initial impression anyway when they showcased previews of MCH), but instead they slapped onto bard as well without too much thought (while failing to deliver on some areas...like making ammo less innovative than they'd preview)

[Katchoo]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!! Are you fucking serious?! 2.0 BRD was piss-fucking easy! There was nothing "hard" about "keeping up" with it. It was a fucking faceroll then and still is to this day.

While 2.xx Bard might have certainly had a lower ceiling of difficulty to actually play i feel it had a higher ceiling to play well.

You could argue that most jobs are easy to play (at least in 2.xx). 1-2-3 combo then 3-4-5 with some oGCD mixed in.

Bard is literally the exact same speed, but it is also much less lazy. Now you actually have to plan out your cooldowns and new abilities while still using your abilities at the exact same rate you did before. The horror!

Bard always had to plan out your cool downs, you always lined up skills to go with Barrage to maximise it's effect, or internal release to go with DoTs.

[RiceisNice]

While 2.xx Bard might have certainly had a lower ceiling of difficulty to actually play i feel it had a higher ceiling to play well.

You could argue that most jobs are easy to play (at least in 2.xx). 1-2-3 combo then 3-4-5 with some oGCD mixed in.

You are literally putting words into my mouth. Difficulty is subjective and relative from player to player.

And you know what? Bard's flowchart or prioirty list really hasn't changed much from 2.0 aside from getting two oGCDs added in. What they do have to do is stand still for their weapon skill so they need to take into account the mechanics of fights and when it's feasible for them to stand still, and when it is ideal to disable it so you gain auto attacks and instant attacks again....which is what you did anyway back in 2.0, you just didn't have a reason to actually put it to use.

I read what you said! Here's the solution: learn to play.

Bard is literally the exact same speed, but it is also much less lazy. Now you actually have to plan out your cooldowns and new abilities while still using your abilities at the exact same rate you did before. The horror!

What? I could technically be less attentive to my straight shot procs because I can't catch them off right after it appears. Learning how to play bard (and me, and probably the other bards in here) doesn't make it any less enjoyable. And no, you can't use your abilties as a whole at the same rate. Your weaponskills may still go out once every 2.5 seconds, but you're using one less oGCD (or bloodletter) per GCD unless you want to clip into your next weaponskill.

[dragoelete]

I read what you said! Here's the solution: learn to play.

Bard is literally the exact same speed, but it is also much less lazy. Now you actually have to plan out your cooldowns and new abilities while still using your abilities at the exact same rate you did before. The horror!

I guess it feels slower because you can't run in circles while casting spells anymore, or something.

heres the thing unless i remember it wrong bard doesnt cast spells... so maybe SE should stop treating them like a spell caster if they were a spell caster then why are they not put into DoM rather than DoW (and before you argue about paladin paladin has no cast times except on 1 skill and a few of there cross class options (which dont count)).

[Rikkustrife]

You are literally putting words into my mouth. Difficulty is subjective and relative from player to player.

And you know what? Bard's flowchart or prioirty list really hasn't changed much from 2.0 aside from getting two oGCDs added in. What they do have to do is stand still for their weapon skill so they need to take into account the mechanics of fights and when it's feasible for them to stand still, and when it is ideal to disable it so you gain auto attacks and instant attacks again....which is what you did anyway back in 2.0, you just didn't have a reason to actually put it to use.

I think that is a misquote on Katchoo's part, since they tend to agree with you with their posts, it was SlyRoyale that wrote that and somehow your name was put in the quote

[Katchoo]

Edit: Totally right wrong name in quote dude. All you tiny people look the same to a Roe :P

As a side not that i have mentioned before, one issue if have with WM is that you may have the option in a fight with a large amount of movement to turn off WM and in this situation you would be doing more DPS than with WM on, but this does not mean you are doing the same DPS. This might seem obvious but consider this, while your are not in WM you are effectively a 2.00 Bard in a 3.00 world while every other job remains a 3.0 job.

[Rikkustrife]

I said



Which is a statement that agrees with your post of ...



and then i said



Meaning that thats what i think. So i'm not sure how you extrapolated that i was putting words into your mouth?

As a side not that i have mentioned before, one issue if have with WM is that you may have the option in a fight with a large amount of movement to turn off WM and in this situation you would be doing more DPS than with WM on, but this does not mean you are doing the same DPS. This might seem obvious but consider this, while your are not in WM you are effectively a 2.00 Bard in a 3.00 world while every other job remains a 3.0 job.

because it was SlyRoyale and not RiceisNice who said what you quoted

[Geardagas]

And no, you can't use your abilties as a whole at the same rate. Your weaponskills may still go out once every 2.5 seconds

Read these two lines one after each other. Carefully.

He said that bard is slower. It isn't. I'm not sure why you're agreeing with me while trying to disagree with me. How does cramming all your cds into one gcd make bard faster? Like I said, you actually have to plan ahead now - therefore adding a new dimension into bard gameplay. Really, it sounds like you guys are grasping at straws, looking for reasons to complain.

90% of massive changes to gameplay fail. Wanderers minuet doesn't. Not only is it more fun, it is also more engaging and thoughtful. I'll say it again (even though i absolutely hate this phrase, but it 100% applies to the wanderers minuet complaints): learn to play. I didn't know how to play, and I complained and complained and complained. Now I get it, and i'm happy with it.

[Katchoo]

Not only is it more fun

Whats fun is subjective, which i think is a main reason for some of these arguments.

learn to play.

I think this has already been said. Knowing how to play and enjoying it are two different things.

Read these two lines one after each other. Carefully.

You took his line slightly out of context because you omitted the second half of the sentence.

but you're using one less oGCD (or bloodletter) per GCD

If in a 10 second period is use: 4 GCD attacks + 5 oGCD w/o WM VS 4 GCD attacks + 4 oGCD with WM how is that not slower?

[Geardagas]

That would be an excellent post, if those were the only two things I said.

I made an effort to point out how much I hated WM until I came to understand it, which was the entire point of the post, but I guess it's easier to just pick one or two phrases that you can contradict.