Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[LionKing]

Is there anything need to be fixed? All I hear is "Brd is now broken, Brd is now too hard to play, make Brd face roll, yada yada...". How about sit back, and spend all that time to learn and git good?

[Aiselia]

Is there anything need to be fixed?

Yes.

How about sit back and spend some time actually reading the posts to find the objective issues rather than skimming and just assuming everyone's whining for the sake of whining?

[dragoelete]

Is there anything need to be fixed? All I hear is "Brd is now broken, Brd is now too hard to play, make Brd face roll, yada yada...". How about sit back, and spend all that time to learn and git good?

most of the people in here are not whining because its "hard" to use WM. they are complaining that they don't like the skill cause they don't like the change in mechanics. honestly they could be the best bard in the world with WM and still complain about it because they don't like or outright hate the skill. so the "git gud" thing doesn't work in this situation and your just making yourself look stupid by using it.

[AiiroOkami]

We don't like BRD now

Finally someone said it. You don't think the BRD is broken or need a rework, you just DON'T like the class.
I don't know why you are so stubborn about fixing things that don't need to be fixed just because you don't like it.
I don't like the WHM, I don't like his "playstyle" (I use a word everyone here like to use). Do I whine about it or say that the WHM is broken ?
No, I just don't play it and play classes I enjoy playing, there are plenty of other classes in the game. If you like none of them, I only have 1 advice; quit the game, don't waste your time on something you don't like.
Simple as that, people.

[Snowaeth]

Finally someone said it. You don't think the BRD is broken or need a rework, you just DON'T like the class.
I don't know why you are so stubborn about fixing things that don't need to be fixed just because you don't like it.
I don't like the WHM, I don't like his "playstyle" (I use a word everyone here like to use). Do I whine about it or say that the WHM is broken ?
No, I just don't play it and play classes I enjoy playing, there are plenty of other classes in the game. If you like none of them, I only have 1 advice; quit the game, don't waste your time on something you don't like.
Simple as that, people.

Just because someone says one thing, doesn't mean that sums up everything.
There are plenty of QoL fixes that the bard can use.
These QoL issues add up to people not liking it, but they are actual issues with the bard skills unlike the like/dislike thing they'r straight up conflicts of stance vs skills.
The fact that some people like broken skills, is the same argument as what you'r saying, just because some people like a broken thing, doesn't mean it's not broken.

I personally dislike the change of playstyle especially because of the class homogenization that happens from outright copying a stance from another class.
I still play bard as I dislike most other jobs even more, but me disliking the playstyle change is a separate issue from the actual QoL issues that came with the stance which are real issues.

And yes the bard is playable, does solid dps when played right while avoiding the issues that it has, it still does have those issues despite all that.
It's like we'r playing the game in the current state, but the bard itself is still in beta where skills are just unpolished unlike other jobs.

[AiiroOkami]

Snip

So you're telling me that a DD (Damage dealer) coupled with some support skills is totally playable, can deal good damages, support his team, clear the hardest content, BUT it is still broken ?
Sounds totally right to me /sarcasm

What broken skills ? Every skills seems to work fine, I didn't got a complain from a BRD that his skills are broken.
The procs can also be fine, you just need a correct connection.

You sound like you just hate the game, why do you play a game you hate ? I really can't understand this, SE try to please everyone, but this is impossible. They don't have time to always look at issues that some people (yeah you clearly are the minority of the BRD playerbase) dislike.

[RiceisNice]

What broken skills ? Every skills seems to work fine, I didn't got a complain from a BRD that his skills are broken.
The procs can also be fine, you just need a correct connection.
.

You can't catch straighter shot procs right after a heavy shot, even if you use a GCD right after the heavy shot that proc'd it. If you used a straight shot after a heavy shot proccing SS, you will not get the instant cast or 100% crit regardless, evenif you used an oGCD right after heavyshot. The only way you'd ever catch this is if you purposely delay your weaponskill beyond the 2.5 GCD.

Sounds like the ones who are complaining do not want to relearn the job and adjust to it. That's worse than calling people out for it.



Let me tell you why those "objective issues" are bullshit.

Despite being a mobile job, BRDs can stay in one spot and only move if they have to like anyone else. If those moments are few and far, you'll only "need" to turn off WM to sneak in auto-attacks. Have to move for an extended period of time? Turn off the stance and turn it back on when you can stay still. There is also the issue of River of Blood, but that is based on RNG. Not much we can do about that aside from the gear we wear. Potent abilities gated behind the stance? Guess what: the damage boost from WM affects them, too. Empyreal Arrow's potency is 286 after Minuet, and Iron Jaws is 130 plus 273 and 351 from Venomous and Windbite DoTs respectively, adding up to a total of 754 potency. Can't say no to that. Clunkiness? Please. Our cast times are shorter than those of actual casters. We can still weave in oGCDs between GCDs. Only difference is we'd be hard-pressed to try and weave in two at a time, and that's just an adjustment issue.

I don't think it's mentioned in this thread yet. I'm losing track because everyone from both sides always tackle on different perspectives or have very selective reading.

Mobility is not the issue here. It's not the DPS. It's the playstyle for some of us who enjoyed how fast paced Bard was in 2.0.

Alot of hte problems come because of the cast times, even if it's 1.5 seconds long. You can't weave two oGCDs; which means you'll either end up doubling ogCDs and delaying your weapon skill, or delaying your oGCD/bloodletter when river of blood procs. Doing the former is an utter pacebreaker for a class where I used to time my GCDs and pop an ability as soon as it runs out. If I double my oGCDs inbetween each one, I can't use a weaponskill as soon as it comes off the GCD. If I don't use my bloodletter as it procs, I risk doubling up on that reset and causing a dps loss.

And then you have the problem with straight shot above not registering fast enough to be used within the next GCD, even if you used an oGCD to cancel heavy shot's animation. And funny enough, BLM apparently had a similar problem with fire III not using up fire starter procs (which only occurs when they use sharpcast, I don't know why they would try to hardcast a fire III after fire otherwise) and they ended up fixing that in 8/4 but not straighter shot.

The whole introduction of WM onto bard was incredibly halfassed, especially since MCH gets the exact, same, functional ability. It doesn't even follow bard's inherent gameplay or add onto it, it just turns it around and doesn't appeal to anyone who enjoyed 2.0's bard. It even shows in just how awkward the animations for emypyreal and windbite look that they were not designed with cast times in mind, they clip so obnoxiously when you use an oGCD after it.