Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[Tila]

I love to inform you that you're wrong.
Sure a white mage got some damage reduced from Holy, but they compensate with Aero III in high-health mob fights, and Assize for more burst.
3+ mobs, White Mage is still king of DPS.

As for the clippling, only the second cast of Holy needs to be delayed by 1second. If it clips you lose 1 second. Drastic. :/

To keep it on-point:
Thank you for using cooldowns.
Thank you for using fending on trash.
Healers see health bars in %, not numbers. The longer it stays 100% the better, when you dip to 1hp, a Benediction is more valuable.

Everything regarding this topic has already been discussed in previous pages so I'm out.

You're counting out that Warrior is auto attacking during all this, that they have dps buffs they can use, that they have vengence adding in more damage, that holy has a long cast time, and above all else, that at most you're losing one or two holys if the WAR is going heavy slaying.

You're talking as though that a slaying warrior means no WHM DPS. No, it just means a small handful of fewer casts while the warrior continues DPSing.

[Phoebus]

I would say you should gear as according to your groups ability. If the Healer lacks ability you should throw on some fending. If your Healer is good go more to slaying.

In the exact example that was stated early with a3 trash i roll full slaying and the whm blows everything up.

Vit on accessories isn't needed outside savage atm, and even then it is rare for someone to go full fending. It is usually a mix or pentamelds.

[Xaenith]

Best solution is to have both on hand and swap out depending on the situation. That being said if you can only get one definitely go for mitigation over DPS as the tank. The tanks primary job is to pull all of the hate and survive. This goal should be prioritized over everything else with DPS still in mind but insofar as this does not interfere with the tank's primary objective.

Take this with a grain of salt because all my jobs are only 31 but I recently respecced both of my tanks to pure vitality and I like it a LOT better than having a mix like I had before. I don't really notice the lost strength (maybe since I only have like 12 points anyways) but the extra vitality makes the healer's job way easier and leaves more room for error. The extra damage from strength is moot if you die even once yet if you have too much vitality it's not going to hurt you

It's a complicated matter and it can change based on what you're doing but overall I would say VIT>STR for tanks.

[Zfz]

I would worry about that if Holy wasn't nerfed to poop.

Hate to break it to you, but holy spam is no longer a very potent combo and WHM (and BLM) will always be behind SMN now.

Just want to say, Holy is still the primary AoE tool for the WHM and it is still very potent, add the new AOE tools WHM got, you'll see that WHM AOE dps is still very strong compared to anything any tank can ever wish to do in their wet dreams.

Yes WHM is behind the real DPS but that's how it should be anyway. But it is still miles ahead any tank.

[Phoenicia]

Just want to say, Holy is still the primary AoE tool for the WHM and it is still very potent, add the new AOE tools WHM got, you'll see that WHM AOE dps is still very strong compared to anything any tank can ever wish to do in their wet dreams.

Yes WHM is behind the real DPS but that's how it should be anyway. But it is still miles ahead any tank.

If you really think a WHM is far ahead of any tank (that's not a PLD) then you haven't played with good tanks that aren't PLDs. Don't forget Holy loses a % per target hit. So more the more targets you do less per target while the tanks do the same. Tanks scale better for every target added into the mob while WHM loses potency.

WAR AoE is no joke. Specially if WAR is good enough to combo Maim (stopping at Maim) for its buff before using its AoE. A Maim/berserked WAR slipping into deliverance after grabbing initial aggro popping Vengeance (50 potency each time they're hit) and spamming Overpower (120 each) 7 times then ending zerk with double Decimate (280 each) is gonna do so much damage it'll put some of the real DPS to shame until their Berserk wears off. 20 seconds is a long time (9 GCDs) and it is longer than anything a WHM can afford before they have to actually step out of Cleric Stance to heal. Maim and Berserk are massive damage multipliers. Deliverance + Maim + Berserk = 1.05 x 1.20 x 1.50 = 1.89 (89% damage increase). WAR's AoE potency per target is not affected by the number of enemies hit.

DRK AoE is no joke either, DA DP is 50% stronger than holy and is oGCD, they have a DoT that ticks at 70 potency for a total of 525! and their AD is 120 potency. Everything is multiplied by 1.15. DRK AoE potency per target is not affected by the number of enemies hit.

Oh, here's a funny fact: SCH has way higher AoE DPS than WHM thanks to Bane, Miasma II and Shadow Flare. WHM has higher single target DPS though.

Do not underestimate tanks AoE.

[dragoelete]

snip

yes but subtract that by the damage the war would be doing in defiance because that's how much damage they would have been doing anyway. and then compare that to the healer damage which is how much dps would have actually been happening if you would have stayed in defiance...

[Phoenicia]

yes but subtract that by the damage the war would be doing in defiance because that's how much damage they would have been doing anyway. and then compare that to the healer damage which is how much dps would have actually been happening if you would have stayed in defiance...

If you read carefully, I said "slip into deliverance".

But since you mention defiance, here's an example of what a good WAR will do:

Have 5 stacks ready, go into mob, use a maim combo for the buff, use unchained > Overpower > Infuiriate+Berserk > Overpower x2 > Overpower > Internal Release > Overpower > Vengeance > Overpower x5 > Steel Cyclone.

You can ignore the defiance penalty for 10 GCDs (9 in unchained and 1 Steel Cyclone). You multipliers will still be maim (1.2) + zerk (1.5) = 1.8 (80% bonus).

[Zfz]

WAR slipping into deliverance

longer than anything a WHM can afford before they have to actually step out of Cleric Stance to heal.

Few quesetions/points:

(1) Isn't Deliverance exactly the reason why the WHM would have to go back to healing earlier? I've not really used my WAR at all but I remember that the Wrath stacks could be used for damage reduction. Tanking an AOE pack in Deliverance, you've got less HP, you're healed for less on top of the fact that you already have no innate damage reduction, and then you aren't using Wrath for Inner Beast. The Dark Knight for example could have Grit (20%), Shadowskin (20%) and Shadow Wall (30%) giving about 55% damage reduction for the first 10 seconds, half of what you will be taking.

Besides, the point is about whether it's better for the WHM to dps or for the WAR to dps. You should be comparing maximum WAR dps in deliverance to the maximum WHM dps that can be achieved when the WAR is pure VIT and going full defensive in his skill usage. Comparing a WAR in dps mode to a WHM that has to heal a WAR in dps mode is nonsense. So the question becomes, how long can a WAR hold out in full defensive mode before a WHM has to heal the WAR?

(2) IIRC Berzerk is not +50% damage. It is +50% attack power. This was a long time ago but it was calculated to be worth +20% final damage. Unless the skill has changed?

(3) Holy+Aero3+Assize actually gives the WHM higher total AOE potency than the old uncapped Holy. Holy itself is nerfed but WHM AOE dps has improved in terms of potency. It only starts to be worse than 2.x Holy spam after the 7th or 8th target, for a fight lasting about 20 seconds.

----

Unrelated, but on a PLD with Hallowed Ground (100% for 10s) > Sentinel+Rampart (52% for 10s) we're already at 20 seconds. Perhaps that's why I put more value on WHM AOE dps than WARs do.

[Ipkonfig]

This post is more about bad tank vs good tank than it is about fending vs slaying.

Yes a bad Warrior will sit in Deliverance and "count to 5" and it would suck to play with those warriors. Now if you play with a good Warrior who stance dances and supplements Deliverance with cooldowns it's going to go much smoother. Any run I tank I typically go 3 slaying, 2 fending, and full strength stats, and regardless if I go with an FC or PUG healer I see plenty of Banes, Holy spam, and I never drop below 50%.

@SirTaint - Paladin still holds the easiest tank title, the few Paladin mains in my FC have switched to WAR or DRK for their statics were just as bored with it in 3.0 as they were in 2.X. I guess if you mean a Warrior who just sits in one stance, stacks 5 Wrath/Abandon, burns it right away, rinse repeat then I'd say that Paladin/Warrior would be roughly the same. While PLD stance dancing requires a GCD, it doesn't bring a lockout with it and it has no mechanics tied to it.

[pandabearcat]

The lockout is meaningless and the gcd drop + combo interruption is horrifying.

For instance, if a PLD swapped every 10 seconds like a warrior can, they would actually LOSE dps.

lol. Oh wait but we can't have PLD have it off gcd...nono that would break the game, noone would play warrior anymore, or at least if you listened to the idiots in my thread.